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> This post is not for beginners/non-haskellers, I don't understand why it's being posted here. Is this intentional or are people in the haskell community this

> This post is not for beginners/non-haskellers, I don't understand why it's being posted here. Is this intentional or are people in the haskell community this tone deaf? It's like we're determined to prevent new people from joining. There are plenty of submissions on HN that are aimed at specialists of a field. They get to the front page because people are curious about specialized fields. So, even though I disagree from the pits of my soul with the content of the submission (as a professional Haskell developer, I should add), I think you're being very unfair to say that stuff like this shouldn't be shared with a broader audience.

xelxebar 7y ago
Oh man, I'd absolutely love to work in haskell professionally. Mind if I ask for your advice? As someone with ~4yrs in industry as a mobile developer and a master's in math, what are some routes I should be look into?
- dllthomas 7y ago
  Apply at LeapYear?
- hardwaresofton 7y ago
  Some resources: - https://www.fpcomplete.com https://www.fpcomplete.com - https://haskellweekly.news https://haskellweekly.news - https://wiki.haskell.org/Jobs https://wiki.haskell.org/Jobs - https://angel.co/haskell/jobs https://angel.co/haskell/jobs (if you're into startups) - r/haskell on reddit I do not work in haskell at my day job but I've found writing side projects with it has done wonders for my understanding -- I've been able to work through the trends in how people are being productive with haskell (mtl, readert, free monads, vinyl, datakinds shenanigans), just by trying to make stuff with haskell.
- danharaj 7y ago
  So, I got my first job by going to my local Haskell meetup and chatting with someone who would end up being my boss, and I've stuck with that crew since. I think that's rather serendipitous but it definitely doesn't hurt to go hang out with the Haskellers in your area. There's a regular meetup in many major cities, including Boston, SF, NYC, London and Zurich off the top of my head. Our shop has also hired people who respond to our job postings (on Reddit, for example), as well as people who participate in the community on IRC and Discord either by word of mouth or recommendation. Now, as someone who evaluates resumes and interviews people, the only Haskell specific thing I care about is making sure the candidate knows how to use the core of the language, which is basically Haskell2010 + some indispensable extensions. I expect fancier stuff to require training, and to be honest it's sometimes better to properly contextualize that stuff for someone instead of having them come in already thinking they know how to use the footguns :^). My company asks candidates to attach or link code samples if they have them. If they don't, we ask them to write a small Reflex [0] app, because we're primarily a Reflex shop. Now, every shop is going to be different and expect different things from their candidates. That's one reason why getting involved in the community is so useful. If you hear directly from people who employ Haskellers in your area what they want, then you can build your credentials for that. Besides that, you just gotta apply. If you're a strong candidate in another tech stack, you're a strong candidate for a Haskell stack too if you can demonstrate you can use the language. There's currently a remote job posting on r/haskell if you want to give it a shot. I wish you the best of luck :) [0] https://reflex-frp.org/ https://reflex-frp.org/
hardwaresofton 7y ago
You're right, my comment was a bit of a knee-jerk. A few things: - You're absolutely right about specialist-aimed submissions on HN, it's a large part of the reason I keep coming back to HN, I should have thought about that a bit more. I think this post was a little too far into the very deep end of what haskell can do. - Stoking curiosity about Haskell is a wanted/welcome result, and I think part of my annoyance was that this article was very unlikely to do that, in this context. - I agree with the fact that deeply technical posts like this should be shared with a broader audience -- I didn't mean to imply that all posts shouldn't be shared, but the audience needs to be taken into account a little more. r/haskell is very different audience from HN. While we're here, I'd love to get your opinion on polysemy -- it looks like the best thing since sliced bread for free(r) monads, the combination of the usability of freer-simple and the efficiency gains of fused-effects. I've long secretly held the believe that mtl-style and free-monads were roughly equivalent in power and efficiency equality was only a matter of time, but I am really looking to the free approach because effect algebras seem to be a fantastic tool -- they compose more cleanly than mtl does.
- danharaj 7y ago
  I sympathize! > While we're here, I'd love to get your opinion on polysemy -- it looks like the best thing since sliced bread for free(r) monads, the combination of the usability of freer-simple and the efficiency gains of fused-effects. > I've long secretly held the believe that mtl-style and free-monads were roughly equivalent in power and efficiency equality was only a matter of time, but I am really looking to the free approach because effect algebras seem to be a fantastic tool -- they compose more cleanly than mtl does. I've not tried polysemy and I don't think I will unless it comes up on the job. I'm inured to effect systems after the fifth or sixth flavor. I've heard it's nice from people who've wanted to use it though. I've written my share of production Haskell and I haven't found mtl to be as bad about composition as people tell me it is.

xelxebar 7y ago

Oh man, I'd absolutely love to work in haskell professionally. Mind if I ask for your advice? As someone with ~4yrs in industry as a mobile developer and a master's in math, what are some routes I should be look into?

dllthomas 7y ago
Apply at LeapYear?
hardwaresofton 7y ago
Some resources: - https://www.fpcomplete.com https://www.fpcomplete.com - https://haskellweekly.news https://haskellweekly.news - https://wiki.haskell.org/Jobs https://wiki.haskell.org/Jobs - https://angel.co/haskell/jobs https://angel.co/haskell/jobs (if you're into startups) - r/haskell on reddit I do not work in haskell at my day job but I've found writing side projects with it has done wonders for my understanding -- I've been able to work through the trends in how people are being productive with haskell (mtl, readert, free monads, vinyl, datakinds shenanigans), just by trying to make stuff with haskell.
danharaj 7y ago
So, I got my first job by going to my local Haskell meetup and chatting with someone who would end up being my boss, and I've stuck with that crew since. I think that's rather serendipitous but it definitely doesn't hurt to go hang out with the Haskellers in your area. There's a regular meetup in many major cities, including Boston, SF, NYC, London and Zurich off the top of my head. Our shop has also hired people who respond to our job postings (on Reddit, for example), as well as people who participate in the community on IRC and Discord either by word of mouth or recommendation. Now, as someone who evaluates resumes and interviews people, the only Haskell specific thing I care about is making sure the candidate knows how to use the core of the language, which is basically Haskell2010 + some indispensable extensions. I expect fancier stuff to require training, and to be honest it's sometimes better to properly contextualize that stuff for someone instead of having them come in already thinking they know how to use the footguns :^). My company asks candidates to attach or link code samples if they have them. If they don't, we ask them to write a small Reflex [0] app, because we're primarily a Reflex shop. Now, every shop is going to be different and expect different things from their candidates. That's one reason why getting involved in the community is so useful. If you hear directly from people who employ Haskellers in your area what they want, then you can build your credentials for that. Besides that, you just gotta apply. If you're a strong candidate in another tech stack, you're a strong candidate for a Haskell stack too if you can demonstrate you can use the language. There's currently a remote job posting on r/haskell if you want to give it a shot. I wish you the best of luck :) [0] https://reflex-frp.org/ https://reflex-frp.org/

hardwaresofton 7y ago

You're right, my comment was a bit of a knee-jerk. A few things: - You're absolutely right about specialist-aimed submissions on HN, it's a large part of the reason I keep coming back to HN, I should have thought about that a bit more. I think this post was a little too far into the very deep end of what haskell can do. - Stoking curiosity about Haskell is a wanted/welcome result, and I think part of my annoyance was that this article was very unlikely to do that, in this context. - I agree with the fact that deeply technical posts like this should be shared with a broader audience -- I didn't mean to imply that all posts shouldn't be shared, but the audience needs to be taken into account a little more. r/haskell is very different audience from HN. While we're here, I'd love to get your opinion on polysemy -- it looks like the best thing since sliced bread for free(r) monads, the combination of the usability of freer-simple and the efficiency gains of fused-effects. I've long secretly held the believe that mtl-style and free-monads were roughly equivalent in power and efficiency equality was only a matter of time, but I am really looking to the free approach because effect algebras seem to be a fantastic tool -- they compose more cleanly than mtl does.

danharaj 7y ago
I sympathize! > While we're here, I'd love to get your opinion on polysemy -- it looks like the best thing since sliced bread for free(r) monads, the combination of the usability of freer-simple and the efficiency gains of fused-effects. > I've long secretly held the believe that mtl-style and free-monads were roughly equivalent in power and efficiency equality was only a matter of time, but I am really looking to the free approach because effect algebras seem to be a fantastic tool -- they compose more cleanly than mtl does. I've not tried polysemy and I don't think I will unless it comes up on the job. I'm inured to effect systems after the fifth or sixth flavor. I've heard it's nice from people who've wanted to use it though. I've written my share of production Haskell and I haven't found mtl to be as bad about composition as people tell me it is.