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God bless Yukio Shige. It's pretty impossible to describe what depression is like. You just have to experience it for yourself. One book I read by Gary Paulsen

God bless Yukio Shige. It's pretty impossible to describe what depression is like. You just have to experience it for yourself. One book I read by Gary Paulsen (I think maybe "The Raft"?) when I was younger described "true hunger" as "not 'oh I missed a meal', or 'I will go hungry today', but 'I believe in my bones there will never be any food on this earth ever again'". That's kind of what depression is: a "true hunger" of some sort.

craigzucchini 7y ago
My first thought in response to you was "ah comeon it's not that bad". But then I thought back to when I was fired from my dumb corporate stooge job that burned me out. I literally had an existential crisis during the interview gauntlet where I couldn't see a place for myself in tech anymore. So actually I think you've pegged the feeling quite well. Though I wasn't remotely suicidal, the hopelessness of the job hunt amd my diminished interest in my field of expertise took a massive financial and emotional tole.
- nashashmi 7y ago
  I think the ingredient missing from your anecdote is pressure. Idea of suicide comes when there is pressure to deliver. Like someone yelling at you to get a job. Or constantly calling you worthless because of some personality trait. Or when there is a scenario where if not something gets accomplished then disaster will follow.
  - sysbin 7y ago
    Not necessarily the case. I'm a visibly transgender woman because of puberty and religious abuse when young preventing access to hormone blockers. I would say what encompasses me is to blame for suicidal ideation. The behaviour of people I have no control over and how they constantly invalidate me; possibly threaten or harm me. Furthermore, the cost of actually fixing what makes me visibly transgender is like putting a downpayment on a house and people refuse to consider it medical treatment. Reality can just hate a person and that's really what's to blame. I likely wouldn't be talked away from the cliff.
    - nashashmi 7y ago
      Another definition of pressure? > behaviour of people and how they constantly invalidate me... Reality can just hate a person. ... That you can't escape. > like putting a downpayment on a house and people refuse to consider it medical treatment.
      - sysbin 7y ago
        What's your definition of pressure? I'm under the assumption you attach it to anything. Also I'm offended.
        nashashmi 7y ago
        So you faced social pressure to be a certain person. And were exiled because you did not fit. And then your method of escaping that by using medicine was not good enough. So you face this endless pain and don't have an escape.
        sysbin 7y ago
        I don’t agree with how you phrased it. It’s more that reality just despises some people if simplified to the root. Since none of us has any real control when it comes to anything.
        nashashmi 7y ago
        You are clinically depressed, a persistent form of depression. That's like a force telling you to stay depressed. Because that has become your comfort zone. As another commenter pointed out, this is a problem that lies between your ears. You can blame everyone from childhood to current trends for the situation you are in now. But for as long as you do not conform, you will feel like you don't belong. And so you will seek an escape, but there are none. So you will be tired. You won't have the energy to stay your own person, so you will be suicidal. You are not trans as you like to believe. You are a human who wants to constantly fight your environment and not conform. Calling your self trans is just one way of doing that. So stop fighting. Learn to live. Learn to love yourself. Just as you are. Without changing. Then learn to love those around you. Then the things around you. Then the ideas around you. Hate nothing. That is evil for you. From the book 7 habits, proactive people love first and then feel love. No medicine or surgery can change that. Finally, read Feeling Good by David Burns. I did. :)
  - craigzucchini 7y ago
    I don't think I quite understand what you mean here, but I think it might be a good point. Is there any way you could rephrase this or clarify the connection to my anecdote?
    - nashashmi 7y ago
      Pressure means social pressure. Or financial pressure. Or environmental pressure. Something that is forcing your hand to do something you can't. And then to judge yourself when you can't deliver against it. It's what causes fight or flight moments or, in a sad state, you quit (life). So if you don't have a job and can't find a job, and then you feel bad about yourself, the thought of suicide comes for example when you are about to lose everything you have worked hard for and/or will cause great pain to those around you and/or are judged by your peers as a complete loser and/or exiled from their community. Can't explain better than that.
- yingw787 7y ago
  So there's a number of differences between burnout and depression (that I've noted in my personal experiences): - Burnout has discrete reasons you can identify, whereas depression doesn't. Analysis paralysis occurs much more easily in depression because it permeates everything you do and everything you are. The fire is all around you. I've had to rebuild my sense of reality at times by trying to define what is true and what is not. Meditation is really helpful for this, because of the focus on your breathing and the here and now. - You can still trust your mind during burnout, whereas in depression you cannot. The best analogy that comes to mind is something like Air France 447, where the plane crashes because the iced-over pitot tubes gave faulty readings to the pilot while navigating via IFR. Imagine that but planted in your brain, where your sense of self lives. Writing helps for me in this regard because you can play back what your mind is doing. - You can become fully healed with burnout, whereas you can't ever get back to normal with depression. Depression is like alcoholism in that if/when you become sober again, one drink at any time afterwards can lead to a death spiral. You kind of have to be constantly on your guard, but not so much that life feels like a downer.
  - nashashmi 7y ago
    Can you point to a source for the last point? You say "you can't ever go back". I'd really like to see if that is true. BTW, people commit suicide from burnout too. Doctors mostly.

craigzucchini 7y ago

My first thought in response to you was "ah comeon it's not that bad". But then I thought back to when I was fired from my dumb corporate stooge job that burned me out. I literally had an existential crisis during the interview gauntlet where I couldn't see a place for myself in tech anymore. So actually I think you've pegged the feeling quite well. Though I wasn't remotely suicidal, the hopelessness of the job hunt amd my diminished interest in my field of expertise took a massive financial and emotional tole.

nashashmi 7y ago
I think the ingredient missing from your anecdote is pressure. Idea of suicide comes when there is pressure to deliver. Like someone yelling at you to get a job. Or constantly calling you worthless because of some personality trait. Or when there is a scenario where if not something gets accomplished then disaster will follow.
- sysbin 7y ago
  Not necessarily the case. I'm a visibly transgender woman because of puberty and religious abuse when young preventing access to hormone blockers. I would say what encompasses me is to blame for suicidal ideation. The behaviour of people I have no control over and how they constantly invalidate me; possibly threaten or harm me. Furthermore, the cost of actually fixing what makes me visibly transgender is like putting a downpayment on a house and people refuse to consider it medical treatment. Reality can just hate a person and that's really what's to blame. I likely wouldn't be talked away from the cliff.
  - nashashmi 7y ago
    Another definition of pressure? > behaviour of people and how they constantly invalidate me... Reality can just hate a person. ... That you can't escape. > like putting a downpayment on a house and people refuse to consider it medical treatment.
    - sysbin 7y ago
      What's your definition of pressure? I'm under the assumption you attach it to anything. Also I'm offended.
      - nashashmi 7y ago
        So you faced social pressure to be a certain person. And were exiled because you did not fit. And then your method of escaping that by using medicine was not good enough. So you face this endless pain and don't have an escape.
        sysbin 7y ago
        I don’t agree with how you phrased it. It’s more that reality just despises some people if simplified to the root. Since none of us has any real control when it comes to anything.
        nashashmi 7y ago
        You are clinically depressed, a persistent form of depression. That's like a force telling you to stay depressed. Because that has become your comfort zone. As another commenter pointed out, this is a problem that lies between your ears. You can blame everyone from childhood to current trends for the situation you are in now. But for as long as you do not conform, you will feel like you don't belong. And so you will seek an escape, but there are none. So you will be tired. You won't have the energy to stay your own person, so you will be suicidal. You are not trans as you like to believe. You are a human who wants to constantly fight your environment and not conform. Calling your self trans is just one way of doing that. So stop fighting. Learn to live. Learn to love yourself. Just as you are. Without changing. Then learn to love those around you. Then the things around you. Then the ideas around you. Hate nothing. That is evil for you. From the book 7 habits, proactive people love first and then feel love. No medicine or surgery can change that. Finally, read Feeling Good by David Burns. I did. :)
- craigzucchini 7y ago
  I don't think I quite understand what you mean here, but I think it might be a good point. Is there any way you could rephrase this or clarify the connection to my anecdote?
  - nashashmi 7y ago
    Pressure means social pressure. Or financial pressure. Or environmental pressure. Something that is forcing your hand to do something you can't. And then to judge yourself when you can't deliver against it. It's what causes fight or flight moments or, in a sad state, you quit (life). So if you don't have a job and can't find a job, and then you feel bad about yourself, the thought of suicide comes for example when you are about to lose everything you have worked hard for and/or will cause great pain to those around you and/or are judged by your peers as a complete loser and/or exiled from their community. Can't explain better than that.
yingw787 7y ago
So there's a number of differences between burnout and depression (that I've noted in my personal experiences): - Burnout has discrete reasons you can identify, whereas depression doesn't. Analysis paralysis occurs much more easily in depression because it permeates everything you do and everything you are. The fire is all around you. I've had to rebuild my sense of reality at times by trying to define what is true and what is not. Meditation is really helpful for this, because of the focus on your breathing and the here and now. - You can still trust your mind during burnout, whereas in depression you cannot. The best analogy that comes to mind is something like Air France 447, where the plane crashes because the iced-over pitot tubes gave faulty readings to the pilot while navigating via IFR. Imagine that but planted in your brain, where your sense of self lives. Writing helps for me in this regard because you can play back what your mind is doing. - You can become fully healed with burnout, whereas you can't ever get back to normal with depression. Depression is like alcoholism in that if/when you become sober again, one drink at any time afterwards can lead to a death spiral. You kind of have to be constantly on your guard, but not so much that life feels like a downer.
- nashashmi 7y ago
  Can you point to a source for the last point? You say "you can't ever go back". I'd really like to see if that is true. BTW, people commit suicide from burnout too. Doctors mostly.