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I hate cigarettes, I hate the litter, the smell, and the smokers' belief that they have the divine right to pollute my airspace. I also hate the taxes I spend o

I hate cigarettes, I hate the litter, the smell, and the smokers' belief that they have the divine right to pollute my airspace. I also hate the taxes I spend on keeping them in hospital - but. E cigarettes don't cause litter, the smoke is far less offensive. If people are going to smoke they will smoke. SF would be far better off banning actual cigarettes.

joshanderson 7y ago
Ecigs cause tons of litter from the refill cartridges and from the batteries. Ecigs are much worse of a pollution problem than actual cigarettes.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  Really? It seems like every pack of 20 cigs, seemingly at least 10 of the filters end on the ground somewhere, apparently based on some kind of fanciful "Oh, this isn't litter somehow..." thinking.
- renlo 7y ago
  At least with ecigs the batteries and cartridges probably end up in a trash bin instead of thrown on the ground like with cigarette butts. A single pack of cigarettes is 20 butts, and having been a smoker (and having known many other smokers), a good deal of butts are discarded wherever without care. Ecig components typically last longer than a single pack (an atomizer lasts longer than a pack of cigarettes, anywhere from 2-20 packs worth). A battery lasts longer and gets more use. So while ecig components will be thrown out, they are thrown away much less frequently than cigarette butts are thrown out. To be clear, I no longer smoke.
- tanseydavid 7y ago
  How do you feel about Keurig K-Cups?
- 013a 7y ago
  The, uh, reuseable and rechargeable batteries? You're gonna have to source that claim, because that's insane to suggest. The pods are definitely bad for the environment, but relatively speaking when compared to, say, large-sized McDonalds cups or the dozens of cigarette butts a smoker may go through in a single day, one little 2cm by 2cm piece of plastic every few days doesn't seem like it should be top-of-mind.
golemiprague 7y ago
You don't waste more taxes on cigarette smokers than any other person. Almost everybody are sick towards the end of their life and waste the system money exactly like smokers, sometimes even more because they live longer. Not to mention the taxes on smoking which cover any supposed cost to society and probably much more than that. If anything it is the smokers that finance you. And don't make me start on the cost of many other lifestyle choices, from people who break their arms during some sport activity to people who stopped smoking and became fat and have all the issues driving from it. Calculating which lifestyle is more costly to society is very hard because there are so many parameters and implications, it is better we just leave this issue alone and let everybody live the lifestyle they like or move to a fully privatised healthcare where each person pay for their own problems. But nobody wants that except from Americans
lovecg 7y ago
Btw, it’s counterintuitive and morbid to think about, but the healthcare and other public spending is actually less for smokers than nonsmokers on average: they tend to die right around retirement age before social security and expensive healthcare is needed. See e.g. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1210319 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1210319
- conanbatt 7y ago
  Hah! This is a fantastic argument I hadn't heard before.
- dkbrk 7y ago
  There's a classic (and very funny) scene in Yes Prime Minister with this exact argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB-WCX6ndow&feature=youtu.be&t=673 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB-WCX6ndow&feature=youtu.be...
RodgerTheGreat 7y ago
Living in New York, I see littered Juul cartridges constantly- on the sidewalks, in windowsills, crushed in the street- and I get sprayed with other people's second-hand vaping while walking to work at least as often as with cigarette smoke. As a bystander, I'm hard-pressed to find E-Cigs any less irritating than ordinary smoking.
karthikb 7y ago
> the smoke is far less offensive Because of this belief by vapers, in my experience they tend to be more indiscriminate about where they puff and exhale...the end result is far more exposure to second-hand vape than second hand cigarette smoke.

joshanderson 7y ago

Ecigs cause tons of litter from the refill cartridges and from the batteries. Ecigs are much worse of a pollution problem than actual cigarettes.

sokoloff 7y ago
Really? It seems like every pack of 20 cigs, seemingly at least 10 of the filters end on the ground somewhere, apparently based on some kind of fanciful "Oh, this isn't litter somehow..." thinking.
renlo 7y ago
At least with ecigs the batteries and cartridges probably end up in a trash bin instead of thrown on the ground like with cigarette butts. A single pack of cigarettes is 20 butts, and having been a smoker (and having known many other smokers), a good deal of butts are discarded wherever without care. Ecig components typically last longer than a single pack (an atomizer lasts longer than a pack of cigarettes, anywhere from 2-20 packs worth). A battery lasts longer and gets more use. So while ecig components will be thrown out, they are thrown away much less frequently than cigarette butts are thrown out. To be clear, I no longer smoke.
tanseydavid 7y ago
How do you feel about Keurig K-Cups?
013a 7y ago
The, uh, reuseable and rechargeable batteries? You're gonna have to source that claim, because that's insane to suggest. The pods are definitely bad for the environment, but relatively speaking when compared to, say, large-sized McDonalds cups or the dozens of cigarette butts a smoker may go through in a single day, one little 2cm by 2cm piece of plastic every few days doesn't seem like it should be top-of-mind.

golemiprague 7y ago

You don't waste more taxes on cigarette smokers than any other person. Almost everybody are sick towards the end of their life and waste the system money exactly like smokers, sometimes even more because they live longer. Not to mention the taxes on smoking which cover any supposed cost to society and probably much more than that. If anything it is the smokers that finance you. And don't make me start on the cost of many other lifestyle choices, from people who break their arms during some sport activity to people who stopped smoking and became fat and have all the issues driving from it. Calculating which lifestyle is more costly to society is very hard because there are so many parameters and implications, it is better we just leave this issue alone and let everybody live the lifestyle they like or move to a fully privatised healthcare where each person pay for their own problems. But nobody wants that except from Americans

lovecg 7y ago

Btw, it’s counterintuitive and morbid to think about, but the healthcare and other public spending is actually less for smokers than nonsmokers on average: they tend to die right around retirement age before social security and expensive healthcare is needed. See e.g. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1210319 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1210319

conanbatt 7y ago
Hah! This is a fantastic argument I hadn't heard before.
dkbrk 7y ago
There's a classic (and very funny) scene in Yes Prime Minister with this exact argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB-WCX6ndow&feature=youtu.be&t=673 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB-WCX6ndow&feature=youtu.be...

RodgerTheGreat 7y ago

Living in New York, I see littered Juul cartridges constantly- on the sidewalks, in windowsills, crushed in the street- and I get sprayed with other people's second-hand vaping while walking to work at least as often as with cigarette smoke. As a bystander, I'm hard-pressed to find E-Cigs any less irritating than ordinary smoking.

karthikb 7y ago

> the smoke is far less offensive Because of this belief by vapers, in my experience they tend to be more indiscriminate about where they puff and exhale...the end result is far more exposure to second-hand vape than second hand cigarette smoke.