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I thought the health effects of e-cigs were relatively benign? I know it's common to consider the health profile of a substance with 'no substance' as the basis

I thought the health effects of e-cigs were relatively benign? I know it's common to consider the health profile of a substance with 'no substance' as the basis of comparison, but people seem to like stimulation and get it however they can. I don't like e-cigs, but I imagine they have to be one of the least harmful ways of getting stimulated. Is there a safer stimulant and do you think this ban will encourage people to use that?

munk-a 7y ago
E-cigarettes greatly reduces a lot of the ash related health issues with smoking and regular ash inhalation is quite bad for you and not limited to smoking - being immersed in smoke, even just from a bon-fire, isn't great for your respiratory system. Like most other health things it's moderation that counts for ash inhalation, smoking occasionally, going to a bon-fire once a month in the summer... these are going to instantly damage your lungs but it can add up. A properly tuned vape will produce only trace amounts of ash, but hot vapes can end up ashing the liquid - this is especially prevalent in vapes that have been tuned to heat up more quickly. And, just for reference, smoking other things like an mj joint carries the same health risks. Aside from the ash related risks tobacco is highly addictive due to the nicotine and contains other toxins that can harm you in the long term. For reference, here's what Canada has to say about the chemicals[1]. [1] https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/smoking-tobacco/vaping/risks.html#a3 https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/smoking-toba...
WalterSear 7y ago
Yes, they are vastly less harmful than cigarettes. Anyone who says different is misled, or misleading. They are, however, still extremely addictive. Arguably more so than cigarettes, since they enable the consumption of much higher doses of nicotine. A friend once told me, having quit nicotine and heroin, that while quitting heroin was 'like being the living dead', he could probably go through it again, but not nicotine.
- tastygreenapple 7y ago
  > They are, however, still extremely addictive. Isn't every stimulant? I'm reluctant to ban things on the basis of their addictive potential without considering the consequences of the addiction. I'm pretty sure at least half the people I know need coffee in the morning, but I don't think that means we should ban caffeine. I don't see nicotine as objectively better or worse than caffeine so it's unfortunate that one is the target of legislation and one flows like the manna from heaven in most gathers of people. Additionally, I think there's a 'good' in letting people choose the stim that works best for them. I personally prefer amphetamine, others prefer coffee, some people find comfort in nicotine.
  - dvtrn 7y ago
    I've always kind of pondered why so many things get banned or receive strong, moralizing scrutiny under the auspices of "addiction" while coffee/caffeine remains the uncontested king of addicting commoditized chemical compounds. Open mind here, but can someone elucidate this to me? It came up once in a rather intense discussion with my father in my teens once I discovered the devil's lettuce (cannabis) and my curiosity has yet to be abated by a convincing enough take on the matter.
    - alexmat 7y ago
      Social class divisions. Vaping is seen as lower class. Coffee has always been a white collar stimulant. Weed is becoming more upscale and thus more accepted. Meth and crack are for poor white and black people. Cocaine is for bankers and trendsetters so it tends to have lighter sentences and lenient enforcement. Alcohol depends on the form it takes, wine vs four loko.
  - WalterSear 7y ago
    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/recent-research-sheds-new-light-on-why-nicotine-is-so-addictive/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/recent-res...
ryanmercer 7y ago
>I thought the health effects of e-cigs were relatively benign? As far as we know. However, I've got a gut instinct that coating your lungs with flavor additives and propylene glycol or glycerin probably isn't the healthiest thing to do. Then the atomizer, cheaper ones basically use a piece of steel wool. If you let that variety get mostly dry and still puff away (this was more of an issue a decade ago when they were newer and people had 'drip tips' before all these tanks and battery mods caught on) you absolutely start to get metal fumes which are often quite hazardous to your health. We have zero long term studies on coating your lungs with this stuff, it may be relatively benign or we may see in 5, 10, 20 years people developing some crazy sort of lung disease. It's also far more easier to give yourself nicotine poisoning vaping than it is via cigarettes as you can sit there and just constantly puff away because you've got blueberry soda, brownie, super duper wacky fun fruity pebbles bubble gum, etc flavors. I know people that will vape through ten plus ml a day because they are just constantly puffing away due to the flavor and the nicotine. His 'rig' is effectively permanently attached to his hand and he carries around multiple large batteries in a man-clutch with a few extra tanks. I'm betting he's not alone, in the minority sure but there are likely a lot like him and having your lungs saturated 18 hours a day in nicotine, dye and flavoring agent can not be good.

munk-a 7y ago

E-cigarettes greatly reduces a lot of the ash related health issues with smoking and regular ash inhalation is quite bad for you and not limited to smoking - being immersed in smoke, even just from a bon-fire, isn't great for your respiratory system. Like most other health things it's moderation that counts for ash inhalation, smoking occasionally, going to a bon-fire once a month in the summer... these are going to instantly damage your lungs but it can add up. A properly tuned vape will produce only trace amounts of ash, but hot vapes can end up ashing the liquid - this is especially prevalent in vapes that have been tuned to heat up more quickly. And, just for reference, smoking other things like an mj joint carries the same health risks. Aside from the ash related risks tobacco is highly addictive due to the nicotine and contains other toxins that can harm you in the long term. For reference, here's what Canada has to say about the chemicals[1]. [1] https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/smoking-tobacco/vaping/risks.html#a3 https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/smoking-toba...

WalterSear 7y ago

Yes, they are vastly less harmful than cigarettes. Anyone who says different is misled, or misleading. They are, however, still extremely addictive. Arguably more so than cigarettes, since they enable the consumption of much higher doses of nicotine. A friend once told me, having quit nicotine and heroin, that while quitting heroin was 'like being the living dead', he could probably go through it again, but not nicotine.

tastygreenapple 7y ago
> They are, however, still extremely addictive. Isn't every stimulant? I'm reluctant to ban things on the basis of their addictive potential without considering the consequences of the addiction. I'm pretty sure at least half the people I know need coffee in the morning, but I don't think that means we should ban caffeine. I don't see nicotine as objectively better or worse than caffeine so it's unfortunate that one is the target of legislation and one flows like the manna from heaven in most gathers of people. Additionally, I think there's a 'good' in letting people choose the stim that works best for them. I personally prefer amphetamine, others prefer coffee, some people find comfort in nicotine.
- dvtrn 7y ago
  I've always kind of pondered why so many things get banned or receive strong, moralizing scrutiny under the auspices of "addiction" while coffee/caffeine remains the uncontested king of addicting commoditized chemical compounds. Open mind here, but can someone elucidate this to me? It came up once in a rather intense discussion with my father in my teens once I discovered the devil's lettuce (cannabis) and my curiosity has yet to be abated by a convincing enough take on the matter.
  - alexmat 7y ago
    Social class divisions. Vaping is seen as lower class. Coffee has always been a white collar stimulant. Weed is becoming more upscale and thus more accepted. Meth and crack are for poor white and black people. Cocaine is for bankers and trendsetters so it tends to have lighter sentences and lenient enforcement. Alcohol depends on the form it takes, wine vs four loko.
- WalterSear 7y ago
  https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/recent-research-sheds-new-light-on-why-nicotine-is-so-addictive/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/recent-res...

ryanmercer 7y ago

>I thought the health effects of e-cigs were relatively benign? As far as we know. However, I've got a gut instinct that coating your lungs with flavor additives and propylene glycol or glycerin probably isn't the healthiest thing to do. Then the atomizer, cheaper ones basically use a piece of steel wool. If you let that variety get mostly dry and still puff away (this was more of an issue a decade ago when they were newer and people had 'drip tips' before all these tanks and battery mods caught on) you absolutely start to get metal fumes which are often quite hazardous to your health. We have zero long term studies on coating your lungs with this stuff, it may be relatively benign or we may see in 5, 10, 20 years people developing some crazy sort of lung disease. It's also far more easier to give yourself nicotine poisoning vaping than it is via cigarettes as you can sit there and just constantly puff away because you've got blueberry soda, brownie, super duper wacky fun fruity pebbles bubble gum, etc flavors. I know people that will vape through ten plus ml a day because they are just constantly puffing away due to the flavor and the nicotine. His 'rig' is effectively permanently attached to his hand and he carries around multiple large batteries in a man-clutch with a few extra tanks. I'm betting he's not alone, in the minority sure but there are likely a lot like him and having your lungs saturated 18 hours a day in nicotine, dye and flavoring agent can not be good.