5 ms·

We've got to stop letting 18-22 year-olds make incredibly expensive life/career decisions with zero information.

lacampbell 7y ago
The problem isn't the young age of these decisions, the problem is that childhood now lasts until your mid 20s, as opposed to ending in your late teens. When you have visibly aging people in their 30s saying stuff like "adulting is so hard gaiz!!", the problem is the culture.
- ChainOfFools 7y ago
  This makes me wonder how long a world of immortals would be sustainable.
sdinsn 7y ago
> with zero information Zero information? Young people have so much information: government job statistics, job growth predictions, free career advice, peer-led career forums, etc. They just ignore all of it.
- Hermitian909 7y ago
  This is disingenuous, data you either don't know exists or lack the tools to parse is useless. Even if a young person does know it exists and can parse it, it is often the case that every authority figure in a young person's life is giving bad information. Often times your teachers, guidance counselor, school administrators, and parents are pressuring you to go to some middling 4 year institution. We spend 18 years training kids to treat the adults in their life as authority figures, expecting them to make their own decision against the desires of these authority figures is naive.
  - sdinsn 7y ago
    > data you either don't know exists It's quite easy to come across it with a Google search. > lack the tools to parse The only "tool" you need is the ability to read. > bad information Which is not "zero information" anyway.
  - malandrew 7y ago
    > This is disingenuous, data you either don't know exists or lack the tools to parse is useless. If what you say is true, then we are failing our students far far earlier that when they are making decisions related to college and it's futile to address this problem before we address why they lack these tools by ages 17 to 18.
  - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
    The problem is who we have as authority figures. Teachers and school administrators are people who took easier coursework than say a biologist or a computer scientist and then got a government job. That pathway isn't like most of employment and frankly most of the teachers I had wouldn't be able to hack it in a private company. All throughout high school I was told that I would be unable to become a software dev without college. I dropped out of high school, work as a software dev and make more per year than any of the people who said I wouldn't be able to do that. They simply aren't the kind of people to ask if you are planning a career that isn't in unionized government work, most of them have never done anything else.
    - observer12 7y ago
      The same thing happens with IT security. A common question that comes from high school or college students is how to get started in the field. When the question is answered by people in IT security its pretty common to see college isn't required and be given paths to getting into IT security that don't require a degree. When its answered by people outside the field, go to college and get a degree is the answer. The reality is a degree isn't required its only one path of many someone can take. And often those with degrees eventually follow the same path those without went. The difference is they are four years behind in career progression and thousands in debt.
drspacemonkey 7y ago
It's worse than zero information. As the saying goes, it ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble, it's what you know for sure that just ain't so. 15 years ago when I was doing the university thing, I was surrounded on all sides by adults who were chock full of "helpful" information. While this career advice was probably sound back in the 70s and 80s, the world has drastically changed. It's pure lunacy to expect 18-22 year olds to not only recognize the bullshit, but also figure out the actual truth.
Jach 7y ago
Who is "we", and what are the details of this "letting"? Why 18-22? A more specific proposal to consider: Congress could revert the 2005 decision that made private student loans much harder to discharge in bankruptcy. I don't know if that would be enough for the problem to then resolve itself, as I don't know what percentage of the student loan debt is made of private vs federal loans, but it's something specific and targets a particular feedback loop.

The problem isn't the young age of these decisions, the problem is that childhood now lasts until your mid 20s, as opposed to ending in your late teens. When you have visibly aging people in their 30s saying stuff like "adulting is so hard gaiz!!", the problem is the culture.

ChainOfFools 7y ago
This makes me wonder how long a world of immortals would be sustainable.

sdinsn 7y ago

> with zero information Zero information? Young people have so much information: government job statistics, job growth predictions, free career advice, peer-led career forums, etc. They just ignore all of it.

Hermitian909 7y ago
This is disingenuous, data you either don't know exists or lack the tools to parse is useless. Even if a young person does know it exists and can parse it, it is often the case that every authority figure in a young person's life is giving bad information. Often times your teachers, guidance counselor, school administrators, and parents are pressuring you to go to some middling 4 year institution. We spend 18 years training kids to treat the adults in their life as authority figures, expecting them to make their own decision against the desires of these authority figures is naive.
- sdinsn 7y ago
  > data you either don't know exists It's quite easy to come across it with a Google search. > lack the tools to parse The only "tool" you need is the ability to read. > bad information Which is not "zero information" anyway.
- malandrew 7y ago
  > This is disingenuous, data you either don't know exists or lack the tools to parse is useless. If what you say is true, then we are failing our students far far earlier that when they are making decisions related to college and it's futile to address this problem before we address why they lack these tools by ages 17 to 18.
- fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
  The problem is who we have as authority figures. Teachers and school administrators are people who took easier coursework than say a biologist or a computer scientist and then got a government job. That pathway isn't like most of employment and frankly most of the teachers I had wouldn't be able to hack it in a private company. All throughout high school I was told that I would be unable to become a software dev without college. I dropped out of high school, work as a software dev and make more per year than any of the people who said I wouldn't be able to do that. They simply aren't the kind of people to ask if you are planning a career that isn't in unionized government work, most of them have never done anything else.
  - observer12 7y ago
    The same thing happens with IT security. A common question that comes from high school or college students is how to get started in the field. When the question is answered by people in IT security its pretty common to see college isn't required and be given paths to getting into IT security that don't require a degree. When its answered by people outside the field, go to college and get a degree is the answer. The reality is a degree isn't required its only one path of many someone can take. And often those with degrees eventually follow the same path those without went. The difference is they are four years behind in career progression and thousands in debt.

drspacemonkey 7y ago

It's worse than zero information. As the saying goes, it ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble, it's what you know for sure that just ain't so. 15 years ago when I was doing the university thing, I was surrounded on all sides by adults who were chock full of "helpful" information. While this career advice was probably sound back in the 70s and 80s, the world has drastically changed. It's pure lunacy to expect 18-22 year olds to not only recognize the bullshit, but also figure out the actual truth.

Jach 7y ago

Who is "we", and what are the details of this "letting"? Why 18-22? A more specific proposal to consider: Congress could revert the 2005 decision that made private student loans much harder to discharge in bankruptcy. I don't know if that would be enough for the problem to then resolve itself, as I don't know what percentage of the student loan debt is made of private vs federal loans, but it's something specific and targets a particular feedback loop.