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>I know how much $$$ they spend on acohol a week. Are poor people not allowed to have fun? >I know how they got fired from their job for not showing up. Are

>I know how much $$$ they spend on acohol a week. Are poor people not allowed to have fun? >I know how they got fired from their job for not showing up. Are depressed people not worthy of keeping alive? Do they not bring enough value to the table, so it's okay to just let them die? >I know they blew their tax return in a week. Is poor financial sense justification for not helping someone out that needs help? I dunno, these all seem like kinda tenuous justifications for not giving. By all means, it's your money. I'm not telling you how to spend it. Just that I don't agree with the core idea that poor people should live like hermits, that you know everything about people's lives, that not being taught finance by anyone is a solid justification for not giving. It seems rather post-hoc. Personally I don't think any of thse things should justify someone losing basic human rights like food, shelter, or health. This isn't to say the problem should be solved by private charity, it shouldn't. Can't, I would even say.

0xffff2 7y ago
>Are poor people not allowed to have fun? Not out of proportion with their income and expenses, no. You might as well ask "are middle class people not allowed to buy a Ferrari?" Of course they're allowed to, but they're going to have trouble raising money when they can't pay their mortgage. >Are depressed people not worthy of keeping alive? Do they not bring enough value to the table, so it's okay to just let them die? That's a pretty sweeping assumption, but to some extent what else are you going to do? If someone refuses to participate in society, it's not on me to bail them out. Otherwise I'd spend all my time on the streets of SF trying to fix people. >Is poor financial sense justification for not helping someone out that needs help? Yes, absolutely 100%, yes. No one else is entitled to your money. It doesn't even matter how tenuous the reasons are. There don't need to be any reasons to not give someone money.
ancorevard 7y ago
> justification for not helping someone out We should help this person out. But giving him money clearly is not the best way, in fact it may seem like giving him money is only enabling his bad lifestyle choices. Money is not the solution here.
homonculus1 7y ago
Personal responsibility is a pretty simple concept: if you cannot afford necessities like food, shelter, and medical care (which are not "human rights" in the sense that you do not have the right to compel other people to perform the labor required to supply you with these things) then you should not be buying alcohol, especially not at marked-up prices for having someone serve it to you, and neither should you be blowing your tax returns on other discretionary items. Everything else is just excuses. Nobody should be prioritizing "having fun" over food and shelter, and those that do are not entitled to have their impulsive behavior subsidized by others.
- minikites 7y ago
  >(which are not "human rights" in the sense that you do not have the right to compel other people to perform the labor required to supply you with these things) Food, shelter, and medical care are absolutely human rights: https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ >(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care
  - avgDev 7y ago
    "Food, shelter, and medical care are absolutely human rights" NOT IN 'MURICA they are not. /sad sarcasm as some feel this way
  - refurb 7y ago
    Is the UN going to step in and help ensure those rights are upheld? Of course not.
    - minikites 7y ago
      I wish they would and I also wish the UN would monitor elections in the USA.
  - homonculus1 7y ago
    The UN can say whatever they feel like but the notion of positive rights for able adults is arbitrary and unfounded. You aren't entitled to the care of society unless you uphold your part of the social contract and contribute in return. Or in other words if you have a right to others' labor, then by not working you are violating their human right to yours, and therefore their obligations cease.
EADGBE 7y ago
>>I know how they got fired from their job for not showing up. >Are depressed people not worthy of keeping alive? Do they not bring enough value to the table, so it's okay to just let them die? This is an assumption that they didn't show up to work because of a depression bout. It could have been a myriad of reasons, with the possibility that none of them had anything to do with depression.

0xffff2 7y ago

>Are poor people not allowed to have fun? Not out of proportion with their income and expenses, no. You might as well ask "are middle class people not allowed to buy a Ferrari?" Of course they're allowed to, but they're going to have trouble raising money when they can't pay their mortgage. >Are depressed people not worthy of keeping alive? Do they not bring enough value to the table, so it's okay to just let them die? That's a pretty sweeping assumption, but to some extent what else are you going to do? If someone refuses to participate in society, it's not on me to bail them out. Otherwise I'd spend all my time on the streets of SF trying to fix people. >Is poor financial sense justification for not helping someone out that needs help? Yes, absolutely 100%, yes. No one else is entitled to your money. It doesn't even matter how tenuous the reasons are. There don't need to be any reasons to not give someone money.

ancorevard 7y ago

> justification for not helping someone out We should help this person out. But giving him money clearly is not the best way, in fact it may seem like giving him money is only enabling his bad lifestyle choices. Money is not the solution here.

homonculus1 7y ago

Personal responsibility is a pretty simple concept: if you cannot afford necessities like food, shelter, and medical care (which are not "human rights" in the sense that you do not have the right to compel other people to perform the labor required to supply you with these things) then you should not be buying alcohol, especially not at marked-up prices for having someone serve it to you, and neither should you be blowing your tax returns on other discretionary items. Everything else is just excuses. Nobody should be prioritizing "having fun" over food and shelter, and those that do are not entitled to have their impulsive behavior subsidized by others.

minikites 7y ago
>(which are not "human rights" in the sense that you do not have the right to compel other people to perform the labor required to supply you with these things) Food, shelter, and medical care are absolutely human rights: https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ >(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care
- avgDev 7y ago
  "Food, shelter, and medical care are absolutely human rights" NOT IN 'MURICA they are not. /sad sarcasm as some feel this way
- refurb 7y ago
  Is the UN going to step in and help ensure those rights are upheld? Of course not.
  - minikites 7y ago
    I wish they would and I also wish the UN would monitor elections in the USA.
- homonculus1 7y ago
  The UN can say whatever they feel like but the notion of positive rights for able adults is arbitrary and unfounded. You aren't entitled to the care of society unless you uphold your part of the social contract and contribute in return. Or in other words if you have a right to others' labor, then by not working you are violating their human right to yours, and therefore their obligations cease.

EADGBE 7y ago

>>I know how they got fired from their job for not showing up. >Are depressed people not worthy of keeping alive? Do they not bring enough value to the table, so it's okay to just let them die? This is an assumption that they didn't show up to work because of a depression bout. It could have been a myriad of reasons, with the possibility that none of them had anything to do with depression.