26 ms·

Bottle: A Bitcoin SV Browser

cocktailpeanuts 7y ago
interesting... so all this is stored on the blockchain?
- mathiasrw 7y ago
  Yes
  - n00bdude 7y ago
    So how does one go about uploading, say, a PDF for someone to access with the browser? Very cool btw
    - onion-soup 7y ago
      You can upload it using, say https://add.bico.media/ https://add.bico.media/. Then you just share the transaction ID or sha256 hash of the pdf file to recepient. Recepient can access that file as long as blockchain exists (basically forever). And all this is achieved by OP_RETURN, a special op_code in bitcoin script that allows you to return data to blockchain.
      - jacobroyquebec 7y ago
        Except that the link you suggest is for BSV, a bastard fork of bitcoin that tries to lure newcomers.
        onion-soup 7y ago
        BSV is the original bitcoin. I'm afraid you have been misled by what 'fork' means.
        brianorwhatever 7y ago
        adjective: bastard 1. (of a thing) no longer in its pure or original form; debased. The idea behind this fork is that it is bitcoin IN it's original form
ge96 7y ago
Kind of interesting, would like to have a map of the known links/what is it at a basic overview level at least eg. file, site, image, etc... Only concern to me is that "lack of distributors" if you compare against public web so what do you put in here? That depends though, someone has to host, you(pay bills), or big company that has free hosting like a forum.
- djbits 7y ago
  You are browsing stuff that is hosted on Bitcoin Check this out: https://c.bitdb.network/ https://c.bitdb.network/
  - djbits 7y ago
    And this: https://b.bitdb.network/ https://b.bitdb.network/
- onion-soup 7y ago
  You can browse images storted on chain https://bitstagram.bitdb.network/ https://bitstagram.bitdb.network/ It just renders all MIME type img files that are stored as OP_RETURNs. Oh, also you can tip to the sender out of the box (because the uploader's address is just a bitcoin address!)
qz_ 7y ago
Certainly an interesting idea, but I think you're raising the barrier to entry by not simply implementing this as a browser extension. By having to develop a completely separate browser you're wasting a lot of time and resources that could otherwise be used to achieve the goals of the project. I also seriously doubt the willingness of most people to install yet another battery-guzzling Electron app.
- volaski 7y ago
  According to the website: Why a standalone browser instead of building as an extension for existing browsers, or waiting for mainstream browser support? 1. Build for the future Many things we take for granted in the old "web browsing" experience--including the security model--no longer apply in the new world of Bitcoin. The thing is, Bitcoin is NOT "the next web". In many ways it's completely opposite of what the WWW is, which is why Bitcoin is so powerful. That's why it's more beneficial to start from scratch instead of forking an existing full-fledged browser built for the existing WWW, with many legacy features that can constrain future directions. We can create a new user interaction model optimized for the new Bitcoin world order. 2. Bitcoin-Native Bitcoin has a fundamentally different architecture than the old web in many different ways, with built-in immutability, a self-contained authentication model, and natively monetizable/traceable files. Instead of thinking from the old WWW mindset, we should think from a Bitcoin-native mindset. Bottle can discipline us to publish Bitcoin-first documents, build Bitcoin-first apps, each interconnected to one another in Bitcoin-native ways.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- voodoosurfer 7y ago
  There is a browser extension actually: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/b/eonhdpmmjdekgnmcnpojchndohaeonci/ https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/b/eonhdpmmjdekgnmc...
  - qz_ 7y ago
jacobroyquebec 7y ago
>And because it's on the blockchain, ownership is provable, the content is permanent, and it can be directly monetized forever. How can content be monetized foreved if it costs something to upload (send a transaction to create the block) but nothing to browser (navigating through the blockchain costs nothing)?
- ismatopius 7y ago
  The author of the content can be tipped, because he can access the address used for posting. Also, content can be encrypted and decryption, after payment, can be automated.
  - jacobroyquebec 7y ago
    Thanks, makes sense now!
- claudettemitch 7y ago
  The Bitcoin blockchain stores and secures a ledger. So these websites are just content (text, code) encoded and published through various entries (outputs) on that ledger. You can publish on the Bitcoin ledger for 1 satoshi/byte and an average transaction is around 250 satoshis. These include info on the "sender", "recipient", amount, etc. But with the a special type of opcode you can also publish strings. So the cost of publishing on the Bitcoin blockchain depends on the size of the text you need to publish. A satoshi = 0,00000001 bitcoin and 1 bitcoin recently crossed 10k dollars. So being conservative, 10 bucks would allow you to publish a very simple website. Bitcoin's blockchain is a terribly inefficient place to publish websites, unless you're looking for censorship resistance. The Bitcoin blockchain is secured by the strongest network on the planet by far. So once you publish it you can be pretty sure it won't be easily taken down. Navigating the blockchain in the sense I think you mean wouldn't cost anything. You'd just need to interpret the encoding of the text that was published.
seisvelas 7y ago
This is ridiculously cool. Something in me burns to brush this off, which kind of annoys me. I wasn't aware of how affected I've been by the current wave of anti bitcoin/blockchain/deep learning reaction. It's sad because ultimately, that kind of sentiment just limits the ability to appreciate really awesome stuff that people make, like this. I madly respect the creator of Bottle for wasting your time on something wondrous and original.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
grahamperich 7y ago
VERY cool. It reminds me a bit of this project, which has some of the same concepts and uses the Ethereum blockchain: https://ethsites.io/ https://ethsites.io/ ethsites TLDR: host unstoppable censorship resistance websites that can be accessed anywhere in the world (as long as you can remember a small JS snippet or print it on a tshirt or something)
- djbits 7y ago
  Idea taken from Bitcoin SV and it cant work at scale because ethereum doesn’t scale.
anchpop 7y ago
If you're interested in this sort of idea, you might be interested in beaker browser [0] (I'm not affiliated in any way). It is essentially a way to browse files hosted on a bittorrent-like api, so anyone can seed a website to keep it up. I think it's still a work in progress though and has a lot of features left to add. [0]: https://beakerbrowser.com/ https://beakerbrowser.com/
- pfraze 7y ago
  We're working on our next release. I tweet about it (@pfrazee) and do weekly streams on sundays (twitch/pfrazee).
Zack-sgu 7y ago
Interesting concept. Looks like it would be possible to add analytics / monitoring to the request transformer to track content access though. Wonder if it would be possible to open that up?
mrz1818 7y ago
Built on BitcoinSV!
- easymovet 7y ago
  Who will be able to run a full node if it’s full of media content?
  - onion-soup 7y ago
    Data centers.
    - Macross8299 7y ago
      Doesn't that run contrary to the idea of Bitcoin being decentralized?
      - voodoosurfer 7y ago
        Not if there's a data center in every city on the planet.
      - onion-soup 7y ago
        When there are at least 3 independent data centers, it is already decentralized
Solvitieg 7y ago
If we are posting data to the Bitcoin blockchain, does this data live alongside transaction data? And if so, are there fees to host this data (as we need to pay miners to include data in a block)?
- cocktailpeanuts 7y ago
  i think all these things we're looking at in the browser are stored as transactions using some clever protocol scheme. Fell down the rabbit hole and found these: https://b.bitdb.network https://b.bitdb.network https://c.bitdb.network https://c.bitdb.network https://bit.planaria.network https://bit.planaria.network
- onion-soup 7y ago
  Yes. It lives as a transaction output under op code 'OP_RETURN'. See example of weather data stored on chain https://whatsonchain.com/tx/6dac238576e9778458bb62a2f7d936fde1f258a31bbeb2c20084232589d8d915 https://whatsonchain.com/tx/6dac238576e9778458bb62a2f7d936fd... >are there fees to host this data (as we need to pay miners to include data in a block)? Yes, current fees are about 1 sat/byte. This is really a write once, read many type of system.
  - looeee 7y ago
    > 1 sat/byte What's a sat?
    - solotronics 7y ago
      1 satoshi = smallest current unit of a bitcoin = 0.00000001฿
    - onion-soup 7y ago
      1 satoshi per byte. 1 satoshi = 0.00000001 BSV
    - Roujo 7y ago
      Presumably a Satoshi, the nickname given to the current smallest fraction of a bitcoin that is recorded on the block chain - 0.00000001 BTC. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_(unit) https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_(unit)
thekyle 7y ago
It's a neat idea. Although, I'm skeptical of its practicality for hosting any serious amount of data. If everything is hosted on the Bitcoin blockchain then every node in the Bitcoin network will need to keep a copy of every file uploaded. I would prefer the DHT model used by IPFS and DAT where each node only hosts part of the network.
- marsface 7y ago
  opcode return data can be deleted by nodes at will, they will be as redundant as they are profitable to the storage provider.
- ismatopius 7y ago
  Nodes would be big server farms and preserve immutability by competing for block rewards. If you're running a Bitcoin application you don't need to store the entire chain, only the subset you need.
- voodoosurfer 7y ago
  OP_RETURN data can be pruned, actually. Miners/node owners can decide for themselves if they want to keep the data; eventually a market will emerge for such a service, but for now the blockchain is small enough that it's not a problem.
  - ismatopius 7y ago
    In most cases, you don't even need a pruned node. https://github.com/interplanaria/bitbus https://github.com/interplanaria/bitbus
- marknadal 7y ago
  Do you mean IPFS & DAT? There is also Webtorrent, GUN, SSB, etc.
  - thekyle 7y ago
    Yeah, I made a typo. Fixed now.
solotronics 7y ago
So freaking cool but also worrysome for my transaction fees! AWESOME!
- CraigIsSatoshi 7y ago
  Since this is on the Bitcoin SV network, fees are tiny and the blocks are large. This enables all sorts of use cases for bitcoin, as the creator intended.
arisAlexis 7y ago
people need to pay attention to a detail. BitcoinSV is not Bitcoin as people know it and it is misleading. This is a super cool project but being clear should be a priority in something that has the theme of trust and decentralisation
- onesatoshi 7y ago
  Of course BitcoinSV is Bitcoin. It's just not how you see Bitcoin. Some see Bitcoin exactly as shown here. A new way of thinking about our internet. One where money is embedded in the protocol. Don't get misguided thinking that the more people validate your transactions, the more secure the network is. Decentralisation is not a matter of how many validator nodes the network has. Decentralisation truly exists where/when no single entity can control the protocol, including developers! Attacking Bitcoin is an economically unwise move, as long as miners are getting more rewards in mining than they would in attacking. This is where projects like Bottle really showcase the true destiny of Bitcoin. It's almost like the internet that ARPANET would like to have built :D This might take years (10-20 ? who knows) to fully catch on, and other Bitcoins will exist in the meantime of course. But if you think about it, eventually they will just be rendered useless, as any good first prototype of a new technology is. Very important, uncharted grounds, but once matured, the prototypes are just that. Museum pieces.
  - chachachoney 7y ago
    Bitcoin SV is a scam, chiefly promoted by a con-artist who has attempted to use libel suits to silence legitimate critics and whose academic papers read like chatbot plagiarism. It's not bitcoin, and it's not what anyone outside of the SV cult thinks of when they hear the term bitcoin.
- onion-soup 7y ago
  Wrong. Bitcoin SV follows the whitepaper the most
  - ghostpepper 7y ago
    The OP's comment was that bitcoin SV is not the bitcoin that most people know as bitcoin, which is true: of all the people who even know what bitcoin is, 99% of them think of BTC as bitcoin. OP said nothing about how closely it follows the whitepaper.
slang800 7y ago
Who decided that b:// and c:// should represent Bitcoin-stored files? I can't imagine that this is standardized by the IETF or IANA.
- mrsnuffy 7y ago
  It's not. They will evolve. Anyone can make up protocols like that right now.
kingmr012 7y ago
It actually goes way beyond what y'all are just discovering https://metanaria.planaria.network/ https://metanaria.planaria.network/
- yosteveo 7y ago
  The rabbit hole goes much much much much deeper.
djbits 7y ago
Nasdaq just released interview about Bitcoin SV (BSV) if you want to learn more about basic concept of original Bitcoin and what it does: https://twitter.com/TradeTalks/status/1143588281340137473 https://twitter.com/TradeTalks/status/1143588281340137473
phaser 7y ago
Please note this is hosted on the BitcoinSV (BSV) network, which is not the same as the Bitcoin network that we all know as BTC. BitcoinSV has much bigger blocks than Bitcoin, which is probably why this idea is possible. While the same idea could be applied for the original Bitcoin network, that is far more popular, it would be highly impractical as blocks are smaller and transaction costs are higher. I don't want to start another big/small blocks debate but if this idea gets popular, I doubt there will be many nodes that want to host the insane amount of data that will be accumulated, and the incentives for hosting a full node cost-effectively is the main reason why Bitcoin blocks are small. I also sense a malicious intention with the website not making any reference to the fact that this is not the BTC network that 99.9% of visitors associate with the word Bitcoin.
- marsface 7y ago
  I understand the concern, however association is not necessarily truth. Let's say there are the following main bitcoins: BTC - Bitcoin Core - small blocks + Lightning BSV - Bitcoin SV - Bitcoin as originally proposed, with on-chain scaling Others, BCH, Bitcoin Gold, etc. People must start to learn that there are some implementations of the bitcoin protocol with different perspectives. In my opinion, BSV holds the most promising vision and there will be a lot of experimentation and public blockchain innovation on top of it.
- shilch 7y ago
  I guess the word "Bitcoin" used here refers to the protocol that the browser builds on, and not the chain commonly known as Bitcoin which has BTC as base asset. Bottle is not limited to BSV but could as well be run on other chains implementing the Bitcoin core protocol such as BTC, BCH, LTC and Doge.
  - djbits 7y ago
    It could be implemented, yes. BUT it wont work at scale because non of them scale except BSV. DYOR
  - Dense_Body 7y ago
    You are correct but it actually could not be run on BTC or BCH because of changes that were made to them that make them incompatible with the design laid out in the protocol whitepaper. It also would be prohibitively expensive to do so due to the block size limitations they have in place.
musicious 7y ago
Sure, Bottle is great but go and check out bitstagram.com all of these images are stored and served from the blockchain. The entire site is front end, plain vanilla Javascript. It is using services that this developer also made.. Unwrter is a class act. @_unwriter
apo 7y ago
Highly misleading. This runs on an alternative network called Bitcoin SV. It's most definitely not Bitcoin, but a fork of a fork of a fork. Amusing really, because the "SV" stands for Satoshi's vision. The founder, Craig Wright has been bamboozling people for a long time with his nonsense. It's so long ago that most have forgotten, but the real Satoshi weighed in on a pretty heated argument about whether the Bitcoin block chain should be used to store DNS records. Satoshi was against it due to scaling concerns. The project went on to create its own network and blockchain called Namecoin. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1790.msg28917#msg28917 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1790.msg28917#msg289... I would take this project in the same spirit. Someone created a block chain and network for mass data storage. At least that's the goal. The result is what you see, but it's not Bitcoin.
- shilch 7y ago
  It uses "Bitcoin" to refer to the protocol, not the BTC network. People fought about the name "Bitcoin" for ages and everybody has their own opinion about this topic. The network that you refer to as Bitcoin has forked several times as well and least resembles the original protocol and idea when compared to BCH or BSV. OTOH the market values it the highest. > Someone created a block chain and network for mass data storage. I don't like the phrase of storing data on the chain. The blockchain is not a storage medium but a network that incentivised connectivity and data propagation.
  - kinghajj 7y ago
    Except for an early hard fork due to a transaction verification bug that allowed for infinite Bitcoins to be created, the main Bitcoin chain, as implemented by the Bitcoin Core client, has never forked, to my knowledge. It also seems disingenuous to claim that it doesn't resemble the original protocol, when the block size cap that the forks adjust, was put into place by Satoshi himself.
    - RustyRussell 7y ago
      FWIW, that was a soft fork, since it's backward compatible. It did cause a brief chain fork, however.
dang 7y ago
Commenters have objected that this is BitcoinSV rather than Bitcoin, so I put SV in the title above. I don't actually know what that means, so let me know if I got something wrong.
- shilch 7y ago
  It uses the Bitcoin protocol and operates on the Bitcoin SV network (notice the space) by default.
  - dang 7y ago
    Ok, have a space. Anything else?
    - verroq 7y ago
      Looks like a lot of new accounts astroturfing this submission? They are coming from here: https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoincashSV/comments/c5eg27/its_time_for_bsv_supporters_to_move_out_of_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoincashSV/comments/c5eg27/its_t...
      - ghostpepper 7y ago
        Interesting that some of the top comments on that reddit thread seem to at least be encouraging commenters to follow the etiquette here... polite astroturfing is better than impolite maybe? > There’s a much different tone of discourse there, so be sure to leave your ad hominems and hero worship behind.
      - dang 7y ago
        Ok, we've closed the thread to new accounts for now.
- bdcravens 7y ago
  SV is a fork of a fork (Bitcoin Cash). Many Bitcoin SV advocates get pretty uptight that theirs is the original (based on philosophical differences with Bitcoin development over time) and less of a fork than a reclaiming of the original "vision" (I know it sounds like a bit of convoluted logic ... if it quacks like a duck ....)
MuffinFlavored 7y ago
> Unlike the cloud based Internet where it's easy to get away with uploading illegal content, Blockchain remembers forever, and because the content will stay on the blockchain forever with your signature, you don't even have the deniability when you get caught. How could you be traced if you are on an anonymous network and create an anonymous one-time-use wallet?
- jurassic12 7y ago
  On-off ramps aka exchanges , kyc , unless you mine your bitcoins in a very secret way
ujal 7y ago
Are there similar projects for the Ethereum blockchain? Imagine a censorship resistant Darknet.
- mrsnuffy 7y ago
  Bitcoin (SV) is also going to make blockchains like Ethereum redundant. Bitcoin can do all the things people typically go to Ethereum for, smart contracts, token, 'on chain computation, etc. Bitcoin can do them even better.
- voodoosurfer 7y ago
  Ethereum really isn't great for stuff like this. Check this article: https://www.yours.org/content/blockchain-computing-on-ethereum-and-bitcoin-sv-57371d4d5297/ https://www.yours.org/content/blockchain-computing-on-ethere...
deepwaterz 7y ago
Have a look at https://medium.com/@_unwriter/the-metanet-starts-84f255a65782 https://medium.com/@_unwriter/the-metanet-starts-84f255a6578... This is awesome.
droth 7y ago
Wow. This is truly phenomenal. I thought Bitcoin was a worthless ponzi scheme. Really looking forward to seeing Bitcoin SV progress.
- jurassic12 7y ago
  BTC has turnen unfortunately in a ponzi. the minining rewards on the next halving might kill it. Lets hope people are aware of this.
Gwolfe 7y ago
READ THIS: https://medium.com/@_unwriter/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-cash-experiment-52b86d8cd187 https://medium.com/@_unwriter/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-... https://neon.planaria.network/#/ https://neon.planaria.network/#/ https://twitter.com/_unwriter?lang=en https://twitter.com/_unwriter?lang=en
Tallsaint 7y ago
Duplicate comment.
- onion-soup 7y ago
  This. The red pill that many will reuse to swallow. Only time will tell
Tallsaint 7y ago
This runs on the original bitcoin protocol (SV). Bitcoin core (BTC) has been systematically dismantled and destroyed by the federal reserve who funds the bitcoin core development team. The software you are viewing is brilliant. It is the beginning of things that will fundamentally change the way payments are performed in the next few years. Well done, congrats and thank you.
- justforyou 7y ago
  >>> Bitcoin core (BTC) has been systematically dismantled and destroyed by the federal reserve who funds the bitcoin core development team. Do you have any sources to support that assertion? >>> The software you are viewing is brilliant. It is the beginning of things that will fundamentally change the way payments are performed in the next few years. POCs showing content stored in blockchain currencies have been floating around for quite some time now. Where has everybody in this thread been for the past decade?
satuenpoo 7y ago
Bitcoin SV is the original fully intact Bitcoin protocol. People seem to forget that Bitcoin is a "chain of digital signatures" and BTC is not longer that due to SegWit hashes. Also, for anyone else saying that "BSV" is a "fork of a fork"... then so is actually each of the other networks. A fork has 2 outputs and both resulting chains are "forks". The fake Bitcoin (SegWit BTC) kept the ticker symbol and name. Eventually this will catch up and Bitcoin SV will exterminate the BTC network. Within 1 to 2 years there will only be "Bitcoin" and it will the BSV chain. Do your own research and be careful.
IndustrialRev4 7y ago
Here we have some impressive fruit from the labor of people from one of the only subgroups of the cryptocurrency industry that gives a shit about the 4th industrial revolution, the internet of money, digital cash, new enterprise, dis-aggregating the incumbent behemoths, empowering the individual, restoring informational and economic sovereignty... ...and the trolls pile in to shit on it, insult its supporters, and argue semantics about the name. Grow up you myopic trolls. Bitcoin is a system, not a ticker symbol. Bitcoin SV is node implementation of the original system. You won't achieve anything from the original idea of Bitcoin if you don't allow innovation to thrive. BTC cannot achieve what Bitcoin set out to achieve, so let the others who still believe in Bitcoin have a shot. And please, stop acting like radical cult members.
djbits 7y ago
the reason bottle is build on top of Bitcoin SV is simple, because it scales and it's true to original design by Satoshi him self. Read Bitcoin whitepaper https://bitcoinsv.io/bitcoin https://bitcoinsv.io/bitcoin
dead_mall 7y ago
This is awesome, but it's a real shame that it's not for the Bitcoin network

interesting... so all this is stored on the blockchain?

mathiasrw 7y ago
Yes
- n00bdude 7y ago
  So how does one go about uploading, say, a PDF for someone to access with the browser? Very cool btw
  - onion-soup 7y ago
    You can upload it using, say https://add.bico.media/ https://add.bico.media/. Then you just share the transaction ID or sha256 hash of the pdf file to recepient. Recepient can access that file as long as blockchain exists (basically forever). And all this is achieved by OP_RETURN, a special op_code in bitcoin script that allows you to return data to blockchain.
    - jacobroyquebec 7y ago
      Except that the link you suggest is for BSV, a bastard fork of bitcoin that tries to lure newcomers.
      - onion-soup 7y ago
        BSV is the original bitcoin. I'm afraid you have been misled by what 'fork' means.
      - brianorwhatever 7y ago
        adjective: bastard 1. (of a thing) no longer in its pure or original form; debased. The idea behind this fork is that it is bitcoin IN it's original form

ge96 7y ago

Kind of interesting, would like to have a map of the known links/what is it at a basic overview level at least eg. file, site, image, etc... Only concern to me is that "lack of distributors" if you compare against public web so what do you put in here? That depends though, someone has to host, you(pay bills), or big company that has free hosting like a forum.

djbits 7y ago
You are browsing stuff that is hosted on Bitcoin Check this out: https://c.bitdb.network/ https://c.bitdb.network/
- djbits 7y ago
  And this: https://b.bitdb.network/ https://b.bitdb.network/
onion-soup 7y ago
You can browse images storted on chain https://bitstagram.bitdb.network/ https://bitstagram.bitdb.network/ It just renders all MIME type img files that are stored as OP_RETURNs. Oh, also you can tip to the sender out of the box (because the uploader's address is just a bitcoin address!)

qz_ 7y ago

Certainly an interesting idea, but I think you're raising the barrier to entry by not simply implementing this as a browser extension. By having to develop a completely separate browser you're wasting a lot of time and resources that could otherwise be used to achieve the goals of the project. I also seriously doubt the willingness of most people to install yet another battery-guzzling Electron app.

volaski 7y ago
According to the website: Why a standalone browser instead of building as an extension for existing browsers, or waiting for mainstream browser support? 1. Build for the future Many things we take for granted in the old "web browsing" experience--including the security model--no longer apply in the new world of Bitcoin. The thing is, Bitcoin is NOT "the next web". In many ways it's completely opposite of what the WWW is, which is why Bitcoin is so powerful. That's why it's more beneficial to start from scratch instead of forking an existing full-fledged browser built for the existing WWW, with many legacy features that can constrain future directions. We can create a new user interaction model optimized for the new Bitcoin world order. 2. Bitcoin-Native Bitcoin has a fundamentally different architecture than the old web in many different ways, with built-in immutability, a self-contained authentication model, and natively monetizable/traceable files. Instead of thinking from the old WWW mindset, we should think from a Bitcoin-native mindset. Bottle can discipline us to publish Bitcoin-first documents, build Bitcoin-first apps, each interconnected to one another in Bitcoin-native ways.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
voodoosurfer 7y ago
There is a browser extension actually: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/b/eonhdpmmjdekgnmcnpojchndohaeonci/ https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/b/eonhdpmmjdekgnmc...
- qz_ 7y ago

jacobroyquebec 7y ago

>And because it's on the blockchain, ownership is provable, the content is permanent, and it can be directly monetized forever. How can content be monetized foreved if it costs something to upload (send a transaction to create the block) but nothing to browser (navigating through the blockchain costs nothing)?

ismatopius 7y ago
The author of the content can be tipped, because he can access the address used for posting. Also, content can be encrypted and decryption, after payment, can be automated.
- jacobroyquebec 7y ago
  Thanks, makes sense now!
claudettemitch 7y ago
The Bitcoin blockchain stores and secures a ledger. So these websites are just content (text, code) encoded and published through various entries (outputs) on that ledger. You can publish on the Bitcoin ledger for 1 satoshi/byte and an average transaction is around 250 satoshis. These include info on the "sender", "recipient", amount, etc. But with the a special type of opcode you can also publish strings. So the cost of publishing on the Bitcoin blockchain depends on the size of the text you need to publish. A satoshi = 0,00000001 bitcoin and 1 bitcoin recently crossed 10k dollars. So being conservative, 10 bucks would allow you to publish a very simple website. Bitcoin's blockchain is a terribly inefficient place to publish websites, unless you're looking for censorship resistance. The Bitcoin blockchain is secured by the strongest network on the planet by far. So once you publish it you can be pretty sure it won't be easily taken down. Navigating the blockchain in the sense I think you mean wouldn't cost anything. You'd just need to interpret the encoding of the text that was published.

seisvelas 7y ago

This is ridiculously cool. Something in me burns to brush this off, which kind of annoys me. I wasn't aware of how affected I've been by the current wave of anti bitcoin/blockchain/deep learning reaction. It's sad because ultimately, that kind of sentiment just limits the ability to appreciate really awesome stuff that people make, like this. I madly respect the creator of Bottle for wasting your time on something wondrous and original.

deleted 7y ago
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grahamperich 7y ago

VERY cool. It reminds me a bit of this project, which has some of the same concepts and uses the Ethereum blockchain: https://ethsites.io/ https://ethsites.io/ ethsites TLDR: host unstoppable censorship resistance websites that can be accessed anywhere in the world (as long as you can remember a small JS snippet or print it on a tshirt or something)

djbits 7y ago
Idea taken from Bitcoin SV and it cant work at scale because ethereum doesn’t scale.

anchpop 7y ago

If you're interested in this sort of idea, you might be interested in beaker browser [0] (I'm not affiliated in any way). It is essentially a way to browse files hosted on a bittorrent-like api, so anyone can seed a website to keep it up. I think it's still a work in progress though and has a lot of features left to add. [0]: https://beakerbrowser.com/ https://beakerbrowser.com/

pfraze 7y ago
We're working on our next release. I tweet about it (@pfrazee) and do weekly streams on sundays (twitch/pfrazee).

Zack-sgu 7y ago

Interesting concept. Looks like it would be possible to add analytics / monitoring to the request transformer to track content access though. Wonder if it would be possible to open that up?

mrz1818 7y ago

Built on BitcoinSV!

easymovet 7y ago
Who will be able to run a full node if it’s full of media content?
- onion-soup 7y ago
  Data centers.
  - Macross8299 7y ago
    Doesn't that run contrary to the idea of Bitcoin being decentralized?
    - voodoosurfer 7y ago
      Not if there's a data center in every city on the planet.
    - onion-soup 7y ago
      When there are at least 3 independent data centers, it is already decentralized

Solvitieg 7y ago

If we are posting data to the Bitcoin blockchain, does this data live alongside transaction data? And if so, are there fees to host this data (as we need to pay miners to include data in a block)?

cocktailpeanuts 7y ago
i think all these things we're looking at in the browser are stored as transactions using some clever protocol scheme. Fell down the rabbit hole and found these: https://b.bitdb.network https://b.bitdb.network https://c.bitdb.network https://c.bitdb.network https://bit.planaria.network https://bit.planaria.network
onion-soup 7y ago
Yes. It lives as a transaction output under op code 'OP_RETURN'. See example of weather data stored on chain https://whatsonchain.com/tx/6dac238576e9778458bb62a2f7d936fde1f258a31bbeb2c20084232589d8d915 https://whatsonchain.com/tx/6dac238576e9778458bb62a2f7d936fd... >are there fees to host this data (as we need to pay miners to include data in a block)? Yes, current fees are about 1 sat/byte. This is really a write once, read many type of system.
- looeee 7y ago
  > 1 sat/byte What's a sat?
  - solotronics 7y ago
    1 satoshi = smallest current unit of a bitcoin = 0.00000001฿
  - onion-soup 7y ago
    1 satoshi per byte. 1 satoshi = 0.00000001 BSV
  - Roujo 7y ago
    Presumably a Satoshi, the nickname given to the current smallest fraction of a bitcoin that is recorded on the block chain - 0.00000001 BTC. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_(unit) https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_(unit)

thekyle 7y ago

It's a neat idea. Although, I'm skeptical of its practicality for hosting any serious amount of data. If everything is hosted on the Bitcoin blockchain then every node in the Bitcoin network will need to keep a copy of every file uploaded. I would prefer the DHT model used by IPFS and DAT where each node only hosts part of the network.

marsface 7y ago
opcode return data can be deleted by nodes at will, they will be as redundant as they are profitable to the storage provider.
ismatopius 7y ago
Nodes would be big server farms and preserve immutability by competing for block rewards. If you're running a Bitcoin application you don't need to store the entire chain, only the subset you need.
voodoosurfer 7y ago
OP_RETURN data can be pruned, actually. Miners/node owners can decide for themselves if they want to keep the data; eventually a market will emerge for such a service, but for now the blockchain is small enough that it's not a problem.
- ismatopius 7y ago
  In most cases, you don't even need a pruned node. https://github.com/interplanaria/bitbus https://github.com/interplanaria/bitbus
marknadal 7y ago
Do you mean IPFS & DAT? There is also Webtorrent, GUN, SSB, etc.
- thekyle 7y ago
  Yeah, I made a typo. Fixed now.

solotronics 7y ago

So freaking cool but also worrysome for my transaction fees! AWESOME!

CraigIsSatoshi 7y ago
Since this is on the Bitcoin SV network, fees are tiny and the blocks are large. This enables all sorts of use cases for bitcoin, as the creator intended.

arisAlexis 7y ago

people need to pay attention to a detail. BitcoinSV is not Bitcoin as people know it and it is misleading. This is a super cool project but being clear should be a priority in something that has the theme of trust and decentralisation

onesatoshi 7y ago
Of course BitcoinSV is Bitcoin. It's just not how you see Bitcoin. Some see Bitcoin exactly as shown here. A new way of thinking about our internet. One where money is embedded in the protocol. Don't get misguided thinking that the more people validate your transactions, the more secure the network is. Decentralisation is not a matter of how many validator nodes the network has. Decentralisation truly exists where/when no single entity can control the protocol, including developers! Attacking Bitcoin is an economically unwise move, as long as miners are getting more rewards in mining than they would in attacking. This is where projects like Bottle really showcase the true destiny of Bitcoin. It's almost like the internet that ARPANET would like to have built :D This might take years (10-20 ? who knows) to fully catch on, and other Bitcoins will exist in the meantime of course. But if you think about it, eventually they will just be rendered useless, as any good first prototype of a new technology is. Very important, uncharted grounds, but once matured, the prototypes are just that. Museum pieces.
- chachachoney 7y ago
  Bitcoin SV is a scam, chiefly promoted by a con-artist who has attempted to use libel suits to silence legitimate critics and whose academic papers read like chatbot plagiarism. It's not bitcoin, and it's not what anyone outside of the SV cult thinks of when they hear the term bitcoin.
onion-soup 7y ago
Wrong. Bitcoin SV follows the whitepaper the most
- ghostpepper 7y ago
  The OP's comment was that bitcoin SV is not the bitcoin that most people know as bitcoin, which is true: of all the people who even know what bitcoin is, 99% of them think of BTC as bitcoin. OP said nothing about how closely it follows the whitepaper.

slang800 7y ago

Who decided that b:// and c:// should represent Bitcoin-stored files? I can't imagine that this is standardized by the IETF or IANA.

mrsnuffy 7y ago
It's not. They will evolve. Anyone can make up protocols like that right now.

kingmr012 7y ago

It actually goes way beyond what y'all are just discovering https://metanaria.planaria.network/ https://metanaria.planaria.network/

yosteveo 7y ago
The rabbit hole goes much much much much deeper.

djbits 7y ago

Nasdaq just released interview about Bitcoin SV (BSV) if you want to learn more about basic concept of original Bitcoin and what it does: https://twitter.com/TradeTalks/status/1143588281340137473 https://twitter.com/TradeTalks/status/1143588281340137473

phaser 7y ago

Please note this is hosted on the BitcoinSV (BSV) network, which is not the same as the Bitcoin network that we all know as BTC. BitcoinSV has much bigger blocks than Bitcoin, which is probably why this idea is possible. While the same idea could be applied for the original Bitcoin network, that is far more popular, it would be highly impractical as blocks are smaller and transaction costs are higher. I don't want to start another big/small blocks debate but if this idea gets popular, I doubt there will be many nodes that want to host the insane amount of data that will be accumulated, and the incentives for hosting a full node cost-effectively is the main reason why Bitcoin blocks are small. I also sense a malicious intention with the website not making any reference to the fact that this is not the BTC network that 99.9% of visitors associate with the word Bitcoin.

marsface 7y ago
I understand the concern, however association is not necessarily truth. Let's say there are the following main bitcoins: BTC - Bitcoin Core - small blocks + Lightning BSV - Bitcoin SV - Bitcoin as originally proposed, with on-chain scaling Others, BCH, Bitcoin Gold, etc. People must start to learn that there are some implementations of the bitcoin protocol with different perspectives. In my opinion, BSV holds the most promising vision and there will be a lot of experimentation and public blockchain innovation on top of it.
shilch 7y ago
I guess the word "Bitcoin" used here refers to the protocol that the browser builds on, and not the chain commonly known as Bitcoin which has BTC as base asset. Bottle is not limited to BSV but could as well be run on other chains implementing the Bitcoin core protocol such as BTC, BCH, LTC and Doge.
- djbits 7y ago
  It could be implemented, yes. BUT it wont work at scale because non of them scale except BSV. DYOR
- Dense_Body 7y ago
  You are correct but it actually could not be run on BTC or BCH because of changes that were made to them that make them incompatible with the design laid out in the protocol whitepaper. It also would be prohibitively expensive to do so due to the block size limitations they have in place.

musicious 7y ago

Sure, Bottle is great but go and check out bitstagram.com all of these images are stored and served from the blockchain. The entire site is front end, plain vanilla Javascript. It is using services that this developer also made.. Unwrter is a class act. @_unwriter

apo 7y ago

Highly misleading. This runs on an alternative network called Bitcoin SV. It's most definitely not Bitcoin, but a fork of a fork of a fork. Amusing really, because the "SV" stands for Satoshi's vision. The founder, Craig Wright has been bamboozling people for a long time with his nonsense. It's so long ago that most have forgotten, but the real Satoshi weighed in on a pretty heated argument about whether the Bitcoin block chain should be used to store DNS records. Satoshi was against it due to scaling concerns. The project went on to create its own network and blockchain called Namecoin. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1790.msg28917#msg28917 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1790.msg28917#msg289... I would take this project in the same spirit. Someone created a block chain and network for mass data storage. At least that's the goal. The result is what you see, but it's not Bitcoin.

shilch 7y ago
It uses "Bitcoin" to refer to the protocol, not the BTC network. People fought about the name "Bitcoin" for ages and everybody has their own opinion about this topic. The network that you refer to as Bitcoin has forked several times as well and least resembles the original protocol and idea when compared to BCH or BSV. OTOH the market values it the highest. > Someone created a block chain and network for mass data storage. I don't like the phrase of storing data on the chain. The blockchain is not a storage medium but a network that incentivised connectivity and data propagation.
- kinghajj 7y ago
  Except for an early hard fork due to a transaction verification bug that allowed for infinite Bitcoins to be created, the main Bitcoin chain, as implemented by the Bitcoin Core client, has never forked, to my knowledge. It also seems disingenuous to claim that it doesn't resemble the original protocol, when the block size cap that the forks adjust, was put into place by Satoshi himself.
  - RustyRussell 7y ago
    FWIW, that was a soft fork, since it's backward compatible. It did cause a brief chain fork, however.

dang 7y ago

Commenters have objected that this is BitcoinSV rather than Bitcoin, so I put SV in the title above. I don't actually know what that means, so let me know if I got something wrong.

shilch 7y ago
It uses the Bitcoin protocol and operates on the Bitcoin SV network (notice the space) by default.
- dang 7y ago
  Ok, have a space. Anything else?
  - verroq 7y ago
    Looks like a lot of new accounts astroturfing this submission? They are coming from here: https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoincashSV/comments/c5eg27/its_time_for_bsv_supporters_to_move_out_of_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoincashSV/comments/c5eg27/its_t...
    - ghostpepper 7y ago
      Interesting that some of the top comments on that reddit thread seem to at least be encouraging commenters to follow the etiquette here... polite astroturfing is better than impolite maybe? > There’s a much different tone of discourse there, so be sure to leave your ad hominems and hero worship behind.
    - dang 7y ago
      Ok, we've closed the thread to new accounts for now.
bdcravens 7y ago
SV is a fork of a fork (Bitcoin Cash). Many Bitcoin SV advocates get pretty uptight that theirs is the original (based on philosophical differences with Bitcoin development over time) and less of a fork than a reclaiming of the original "vision" (I know it sounds like a bit of convoluted logic ... if it quacks like a duck ....)

MuffinFlavored 7y ago

> Unlike the cloud based Internet where it's easy to get away with uploading illegal content, Blockchain remembers forever, and because the content will stay on the blockchain forever with your signature, you don't even have the deniability when you get caught. How could you be traced if you are on an anonymous network and create an anonymous one-time-use wallet?

jurassic12 7y ago
On-off ramps aka exchanges , kyc , unless you mine your bitcoins in a very secret way

ujal 7y ago

Are there similar projects for the Ethereum blockchain? Imagine a censorship resistant Darknet.

mrsnuffy 7y ago
Bitcoin (SV) is also going to make blockchains like Ethereum redundant. Bitcoin can do all the things people typically go to Ethereum for, smart contracts, token, 'on chain computation, etc. Bitcoin can do them even better.
voodoosurfer 7y ago
Ethereum really isn't great for stuff like this. Check this article: https://www.yours.org/content/blockchain-computing-on-ethereum-and-bitcoin-sv-57371d4d5297/ https://www.yours.org/content/blockchain-computing-on-ethere...

deepwaterz 7y ago

Have a look at https://medium.com/@_unwriter/the-metanet-starts-84f255a65782 https://medium.com/@_unwriter/the-metanet-starts-84f255a6578... This is awesome.

droth 7y ago

Wow. This is truly phenomenal. I thought Bitcoin was a worthless ponzi scheme. Really looking forward to seeing Bitcoin SV progress.

jurassic12 7y ago
BTC has turnen unfortunately in a ponzi. the minining rewards on the next halving might kill it. Lets hope people are aware of this.

Gwolfe 7y ago

READ THIS: https://medium.com/@_unwriter/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-cash-experiment-52b86d8cd187 https://medium.com/@_unwriter/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-... https://neon.planaria.network/#/ https://neon.planaria.network/#/ https://twitter.com/_unwriter?lang=en https://twitter.com/_unwriter?lang=en

Tallsaint 7y ago

Duplicate comment.

onion-soup 7y ago
This. The red pill that many will reuse to swallow. Only time will tell

Tallsaint 7y ago

This runs on the original bitcoin protocol (SV). Bitcoin core (BTC) has been systematically dismantled and destroyed by the federal reserve who funds the bitcoin core development team. The software you are viewing is brilliant. It is the beginning of things that will fundamentally change the way payments are performed in the next few years. Well done, congrats and thank you.

justforyou 7y ago
>>> Bitcoin core (BTC) has been systematically dismantled and destroyed by the federal reserve who funds the bitcoin core development team. Do you have any sources to support that assertion? >>> The software you are viewing is brilliant. It is the beginning of things that will fundamentally change the way payments are performed in the next few years. POCs showing content stored in blockchain currencies have been floating around for quite some time now. Where has everybody in this thread been for the past decade?

satuenpoo 7y ago

Bitcoin SV is the original fully intact Bitcoin protocol. People seem to forget that Bitcoin is a "chain of digital signatures" and BTC is not longer that due to SegWit hashes. Also, for anyone else saying that "BSV" is a "fork of a fork"... then so is actually each of the other networks. A fork has 2 outputs and both resulting chains are "forks". The fake Bitcoin (SegWit BTC) kept the ticker symbol and name. Eventually this will catch up and Bitcoin SV will exterminate the BTC network. Within 1 to 2 years there will only be "Bitcoin" and it will the BSV chain. Do your own research and be careful.

IndustrialRev4 7y ago

Here we have some impressive fruit from the labor of people from one of the only subgroups of the cryptocurrency industry that gives a shit about the 4th industrial revolution, the internet of money, digital cash, new enterprise, dis-aggregating the incumbent behemoths, empowering the individual, restoring informational and economic sovereignty... ...and the trolls pile in to shit on it, insult its supporters, and argue semantics about the name. Grow up you myopic trolls. Bitcoin is a system, not a ticker symbol. Bitcoin SV is node implementation of the original system. You won't achieve anything from the original idea of Bitcoin if you don't allow innovation to thrive. BTC cannot achieve what Bitcoin set out to achieve, so let the others who still believe in Bitcoin have a shot. And please, stop acting like radical cult members.

djbits 7y ago

the reason bottle is build on top of Bitcoin SV is simple, because it scales and it's true to original design by Satoshi him self. Read Bitcoin whitepaper https://bitcoinsv.io/bitcoin https://bitcoinsv.io/bitcoin

dead_mall 7y ago

This is awesome, but it's a real shame that it's not for the Bitcoin network