14 ms·

Student Journalists Expose High School’s Use of Prison Labor

92 points by laurex 7y ago

metacyclic 7y ago
I went to high school in Belmont MA in the early 90's. For extra credit in our drafting class, we could volunteer to help build a playground at one of the elementary schools. The adults that were also "participating"? Prisoners. Nobody told us, and when I offered my pocket knife to one of the adults, he laughed and said "I don't think you want to give me that!" I learned weeks later that they were inmates. Nice job, teacher.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Generally speaking you never want to make enemies who are richer than you are and for teachers in rich school districts that is all the parents. Some parents will not like it if their kids come home talking about how they worked with prisoners. Considering that wealthy suburbs have basically the highest density of "can I speak to a manager" types there's no way that can end well for the teacher(s). Your teacher was right in deciding that keeping their mouth shut had the best risk:reward. Blame here lies on parents for getting bent out of shape over dumb "my kid isn't old enough for that information" type stuff too often. Sucks but that's the society we live in. Considering the demographics most of HN is apart of I don't expect this to be well received here but the reality is that teachers are "disposable" to a school district on an individual level and the people who last in wealthy suburbs (ie. "good" schol districts) tend to be the ones that do not create any controversy among the customers. Edit: I used to work developing software for education. I am very aware of the workplace dynamics that govern how these people do their jobs (gotta understand that in order to actually build products that they can use). Edit2: Ask any teacher. Rich suburb jobs are coveted because they pay well but the customers are very demanding.
  - asark 7y ago
    > Ask any teacher. Rich suburb jobs are coveted because they pay well but the customers are very demanding. In my mid-sized midwestern city, the notoriously-bad inner city schools pay the best, by far. The pay's not why most teachers prefer to work in the better suburban schools.
    - wil421 7y ago
      Not sure if it’s still the case but in Metro Atlanta some inner city districts would pay off student loans if they worked for 5 years or something.
      - moate 7y ago
        That's common practice everywhere.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      That doesn't square with my understanding but my knowledge is totally limited to New England and some of New York. Here the rich suburbs are where you go when you just want to teach the subject and only the subject in exchange for your check (which can get quite big if you put in many years). Anecdotal data point: The "upscale but not quite Belmont/Lexington/etc" town in MA in which my parents live had a little bit of drama over the number of teachers (some of whom had been teaching there 30+yr) who were drawing salaries on par with software developers in the Boston area. Having been educated in that town years earlier that squares with my expectations. Sure the teachers taught but the overwhelming majority were older and just looking to teach what they needed to to cash checks until retirement.
    - logfromblammo 7y ago
      Lack of heartbreaking stories and hopeless cases is one reason. Everybody likes to feel like their job makes a difference, and in some places it just feels like nothing you could possibly do will ever matter, because the meat grinder never stops making the same old sausages. Also, the suburban schools likely have more opportunities for extra pay, such as by coaching an athletic team or being faculty sponsor for a student club.
  - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
    They're not blaming the teacher for keeping their mouth shut, they're blaming the teacher (or administrator) responsible for putting kids and convicts together on a work project.
    - papln 7y ago
      I read it as blaming the teacher for not explaining the situation, especially regarding weapons. There's nothing to suggest that the prisoners and the teens would have any trouble getting along.
      - darkpuma 7y ago
        Maybe some parents don't want their children getting along well with prisoners. I probably wouldn't mind it, but I would certainly want to be asked first.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  > when I offered my pocket knife to one of the adults, he laughed and said "I don't think you want to give me that!" What did they use for tools then? Pocket knives are rather low on the scale of damage one could do with what's in the average toolbox. A chisel or a hammer would be more of a problem. Or were they concerned with them smuggling the stuff back into the prison?
  - futureastronaut 7y ago
    Yes, it's more difficult to conceal a hammer in your rectum.
    - the_seraphim 7y ago
      its not impossible though
gen3 7y ago
I personally don't have any issues with prison labor as long as its optional and safe (and done by the government. I don't know how I feel about private prisons being able to accept outside contracts). I disagree with making visitations paid. Are there any reasons against using prison labor? It gives inmates something to do and the ability to learn a new skill.
- crooked-v 7y ago
  Of course, that "optional" work that pays a dollar an hour or less also comes with having to pay full retail price for basics like shampoo and band-aids.
  - behringer 7y ago
    Full retail price? Must be nice. Some prisons are much more expensive: https://psmag.com/social-justice/are-prison-commissaries-fair https://psmag.com/social-justice/are-prison-commissaries-fai...
- Qwertystop 7y ago
  Being in prison is fundamentally coercive, so "optional" is not easy to get, and it's compensated as little as the prisons can get away with (because, again, the prisoners not in a position to negotiate). This produces a perverse incentive: imprison people to acquire a population that will work for peanuts in terrible condition.
- about_help 7y ago
  Institutional slavery. If there is no profit motive in any shape or form then voluntary prison labor would be OK with my conscience.
  - linuxftw 7y ago
    Sometimes it's voluntary because the alternative is sitting in high confinement most hours of the day.
stirfrykitty 7y ago
Nothing at all wrong with using prison labor for something related to supporting the public, particularly a school. Taxpayer money keeps them locked up and by dint of this, we should get return on investment. Here in Texas, prison labor is widely used, widely supported, and widely liked. At my last job, we used prison labor often (move furniture, mow lawns, warehouse work). The only prisoners in Texas allowed to be out working around the public are low-grade, non-violent prisoners who also have less than 6 months to go on their sentence. Texas has many programs designed to help prisoners re-enter the market as useful people: farm, mechanical, electronic, etc. Paying a debt to society should involve doing something for society, not just sitting a cell for 23 hours a day. Texas prisons demand every able-bodied prisoner work. They raise their own chickens, cows, horses, and garden food. If you refuse to work, you go into segregation. Fair enough.
- cf498 7y ago
  Since you asked, complaining about getting downvoted tends to acquire more downvotes. I would also suggest not simply sharing your opinion and stating it as fact, this site lives on productive discourse. You simply posting your opinion doesnt benefit anyone. What answer would you have expected, except people agreeing or disagreeing with you? Your edit sounds rather similar. You might want to take a look into the community guidelines. > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It destroys intellectual curiosity, which the site exists for.
  - stirfrykitty 7y ago
    Thank you for your civil reply. Nothing political or ideological in stating that prison labor for the public good is a good thing. It is. That's a fact. Prisoners owe the public for their malfeasance, hence their serving time to pay back society for breaking the social compact. I will say, however, that this site appears and acts disproportionately left in its operation. And while I am a very far right ultra-traditionalist, I can happily exist around others with differing opinions. Notice, if you will, that I never vote anyone down. People are entitled to opinions. The left seems militantly opposed to any viewpoint that challenges their narrative. Voltaire applies...
mikeash 7y ago
Reminder that prison slavery is explicitly allowed by the 13th amendment. We really should amend it.
- geezerjay 7y ago
  > Reminder that prison slavery Aren't those prison jobs open only to volunteers among the prison population?
  - mikeash 7y ago
    It depends on the program. Some are voluntary. Some are “voluntary” with the prisoner receiving time off their sentence in exchange, which is effectively punishing them by imprisoning them longer if they refuse. Some are just outright involuntary.
komali2 7y ago
The waffling on ethics demonstrated in the article doesn't seem as ambiguous to me. Is it ok to pay below minimum wage, if the prisoners are gaining useful skills? No. It's not ok. 1. We have no system of accountability measuring worth of useful skills against amount under minimum wage the prisoner is getting paid. Is upholstery worth 3$ less an hour, or 4$? Are they actually learning upholstery? How do we know? Is upholstery actually a valuable skill? How do we know? 2. We have not allowed other people to be paid less than minimum wage, why prisoners? "Useful skills" is not a valid excuse (except for interns sometimes, which I also disagree with). I don't agree that it should be considered part of the punishment as the jury and judge had no say in the amount under minimum wage the prisoner would be paid. There's no transparency or accountability. 3. It doesn't make economic sense. Why pay someone minimum wage to upholster, when you can buy the work on the cheap from the prisons? The prisons have thus evaded our imposed market controls and have an unfair advantage. 4. Prisoners are humans and (generally) US citizens. It is not cool to devalue them by paying them less.
- mieseratte 7y ago
  > why prisoners? Offset tax-burden incurred by their incarceration. Private companies profiteering on prison labor is a different story. > It is not cool to devalue them by paying them less. They're prisoners. Society has already devalued them.
  - komali2 7y ago
    > Offset tax-burden incurred by their incarceration. I don't agree that this is a valid justification. I pay taxes that go to funding the department of education despite never "participating" in any direct department of education activity. We don't make parents "offset" that cost when they send kids to public school (no, we make the teachers do that by forcing them to use their own money to buy chalk), why should we make a prisoner suddenly be more responsible for a tax burden carried by all of society? This is creating a "separate tax class," in my mind, which defeats the purpose entirely. We all pay in, we all benefit, we all use what we can/need/want of the system (minus the glaring deficiencies). > They're prisoners. Society has already devalued them. We agree. I think that it's bad to devalue them.
dang 7y ago
Would you please review the site guidelines and follow the rules here? Your last paragraph broke them badly. I realize it stings to get downvoted but it happens to everyone—and the site rules require you to have self-discipline about it and not lash back. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- stirfrykitty 7y ago
  Edited to remove last paragraph. Thank you for the info and link.
  - dang 7y ago
    Thanks! I've detached my reply from the original thread and collapsed it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
tathougies 7y ago
Did the student journalist also 'expose' the fact that prisoners are not free to do as they please, given that they're -- you know -- criminals?
- moate 7y ago
  People in their community were unaware of the fact that prison labor was being used to complete school needs. These journalists wrote an article about it and the community at large took notice of the issue. What exactly is your point? That this (prison labor in this community being used for this purpose) is common knowledge? Or that these kids didn't go far enough? Journos shined light on something, the community took issue with it and things changed because of it. Sounds like the 4th estate is still alive and well on this one my dude.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    My point is that being forced to do labor should fall under the whole 'deprived of liberty' part of being imprisoned. It should be common knowledge and unsurprising that prisoners are not free. That's sorta the definition...
40acres 7y ago
Slavery by another name. Think of all the perverse incentives that come along with the ability to access prison labor -- an ever present need for a robust population (a.k.a locking minorities up), lax regulation in terms of various labor laws and general exploitation of labor without the need to pay market costs (wages, healthcare, etc.).
noetic_techy 7y ago
Most prisoners want something to do than sit and do nothing, and are happy to be paid even if its below minimum wage. We cant have them accumulating tons of money while in prison with no outside bills, that's just not fair to the taxpayer. You also don't want to incentive's going to prison as some sort of decent alternative lifestyle on the taxpayers dime. They should be free to sign up and work if they want to. On the other hand, there should be no incentive to incarcerate simply for the labor pool. That's the part that's amoral, not the labor. Good intentions, bad outcomes.
- fzeroracer 7y ago
  Prisoners should be paid the same wage as everyone else. There is no reason to deny them minimum wage because that is effectively slavery. And prisoners should be able to accumulate money because it makes their reintegration into society easier. What's unfair to the taxpayer is a system designed to punish and not rehabilitate because that makes repeat offenders out of prisoners. Right now we punish prisoners and give them nothing once we kick them out of prison. It should come as no surprise that they return to selling drugs or crime to survive.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- crooked-v 7y ago
  > We cant have them accumulating tons of money while in prison with no outside bills, that's just not fair to the taxpayer. Actually, as being able to leave prison with a small nest egg would almost certainly reduce recidivism, it would probably be more fair to the taxpayer than the current system. > You also don't want to incentive's going to prison as some sort of decent alternative lifestyle on the taxpayers dime. Living in a cell while earning minimum wage isn't a "decent lifestyle", it's merely slightly less awful than prisons in the US currently are.
  - ryanmercer 7y ago
    >Actually, as being able to leave prison with a small nest egg would almost certainly reduce recidivism, it would probably be more fair to the taxpayer than the current system. Or it would give people bankrolls to go out and jumpstart their dealing, buy a weapon for their next string of robberies, get spent at a bar/strip club the first week out, get spent on sex workers after a few years of abstinence, used to immediately buy drugs for personal use after forced sobriety. Or just strengthen the gangs inside prisons "hey bubba, we know you've got to have a few thousand dollars in that account, you'd better give it to us or you might not live very long. Congrats you've got a new girlfriend her name is Jane Smith, add her to your visitor list then transfer the funds to her on the outside"

92 points by laurex 7y ago

I went to high school in Belmont MA in the early 90's. For extra credit in our drafting class, we could volunteer to help build a playground at one of the elementary schools. The adults that were also "participating"? Prisoners. Nobody told us, and when I offered my pocket knife to one of the adults, he laughed and said "I don't think you want to give me that!" I learned weeks later that they were inmates. Nice job, teacher.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Generally speaking you never want to make enemies who are richer than you are and for teachers in rich school districts that is all the parents. Some parents will not like it if their kids come home talking about how they worked with prisoners. Considering that wealthy suburbs have basically the highest density of "can I speak to a manager" types there's no way that can end well for the teacher(s). Your teacher was right in deciding that keeping their mouth shut had the best risk:reward. Blame here lies on parents for getting bent out of shape over dumb "my kid isn't old enough for that information" type stuff too often. Sucks but that's the society we live in. Considering the demographics most of HN is apart of I don't expect this to be well received here but the reality is that teachers are "disposable" to a school district on an individual level and the people who last in wealthy suburbs (ie. "good" schol districts) tend to be the ones that do not create any controversy among the customers. Edit: I used to work developing software for education. I am very aware of the workplace dynamics that govern how these people do their jobs (gotta understand that in order to actually build products that they can use). Edit2: Ask any teacher. Rich suburb jobs are coveted because they pay well but the customers are very demanding.
- asark 7y ago
  > Ask any teacher. Rich suburb jobs are coveted because they pay well but the customers are very demanding. In my mid-sized midwestern city, the notoriously-bad inner city schools pay the best, by far. The pay's not why most teachers prefer to work in the better suburban schools.
  - wil421 7y ago
    Not sure if it’s still the case but in Metro Atlanta some inner city districts would pay off student loans if they worked for 5 years or something.
    - moate 7y ago
      That's common practice everywhere.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    That doesn't square with my understanding but my knowledge is totally limited to New England and some of New York. Here the rich suburbs are where you go when you just want to teach the subject and only the subject in exchange for your check (which can get quite big if you put in many years). Anecdotal data point: The "upscale but not quite Belmont/Lexington/etc" town in MA in which my parents live had a little bit of drama over the number of teachers (some of whom had been teaching there 30+yr) who were drawing salaries on par with software developers in the Boston area. Having been educated in that town years earlier that squares with my expectations. Sure the teachers taught but the overwhelming majority were older and just looking to teach what they needed to to cash checks until retirement.
  - logfromblammo 7y ago
    Lack of heartbreaking stories and hopeless cases is one reason. Everybody likes to feel like their job makes a difference, and in some places it just feels like nothing you could possibly do will ever matter, because the meat grinder never stops making the same old sausages. Also, the suburban schools likely have more opportunities for extra pay, such as by coaching an athletic team or being faculty sponsor for a student club.
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago
  They're not blaming the teacher for keeping their mouth shut, they're blaming the teacher (or administrator) responsible for putting kids and convicts together on a work project.
  - papln 7y ago
    I read it as blaming the teacher for not explaining the situation, especially regarding weapons. There's nothing to suggest that the prisoners and the teens would have any trouble getting along.
    - darkpuma 7y ago
      Maybe some parents don't want their children getting along well with prisoners. I probably wouldn't mind it, but I would certainly want to be asked first.
jacquesm 7y ago
> when I offered my pocket knife to one of the adults, he laughed and said "I don't think you want to give me that!" What did they use for tools then? Pocket knives are rather low on the scale of damage one could do with what's in the average toolbox. A chisel or a hammer would be more of a problem. Or were they concerned with them smuggling the stuff back into the prison?
- futureastronaut 7y ago
  Yes, it's more difficult to conceal a hammer in your rectum.
  - the_seraphim 7y ago
    its not impossible though

gen3 7y ago

I personally don't have any issues with prison labor as long as its optional and safe (and done by the government. I don't know how I feel about private prisons being able to accept outside contracts). I disagree with making visitations paid. Are there any reasons against using prison labor? It gives inmates something to do and the ability to learn a new skill.

crooked-v 7y ago
Of course, that "optional" work that pays a dollar an hour or less also comes with having to pay full retail price for basics like shampoo and band-aids.
- behringer 7y ago
  Full retail price? Must be nice. Some prisons are much more expensive: https://psmag.com/social-justice/are-prison-commissaries-fair https://psmag.com/social-justice/are-prison-commissaries-fai...
Qwertystop 7y ago
Being in prison is fundamentally coercive, so "optional" is not easy to get, and it's compensated as little as the prisons can get away with (because, again, the prisoners not in a position to negotiate). This produces a perverse incentive: imprison people to acquire a population that will work for peanuts in terrible condition.
about_help 7y ago
Institutional slavery. If there is no profit motive in any shape or form then voluntary prison labor would be OK with my conscience.
- linuxftw 7y ago
  Sometimes it's voluntary because the alternative is sitting in high confinement most hours of the day.

stirfrykitty 7y ago

Nothing at all wrong with using prison labor for something related to supporting the public, particularly a school. Taxpayer money keeps them locked up and by dint of this, we should get return on investment. Here in Texas, prison labor is widely used, widely supported, and widely liked. At my last job, we used prison labor often (move furniture, mow lawns, warehouse work). The only prisoners in Texas allowed to be out working around the public are low-grade, non-violent prisoners who also have less than 6 months to go on their sentence. Texas has many programs designed to help prisoners re-enter the market as useful people: farm, mechanical, electronic, etc. Paying a debt to society should involve doing something for society, not just sitting a cell for 23 hours a day. Texas prisons demand every able-bodied prisoner work. They raise their own chickens, cows, horses, and garden food. If you refuse to work, you go into segregation. Fair enough.

cf498 7y ago
Since you asked, complaining about getting downvoted tends to acquire more downvotes. I would also suggest not simply sharing your opinion and stating it as fact, this site lives on productive discourse. You simply posting your opinion doesnt benefit anyone. What answer would you have expected, except people agreeing or disagreeing with you? Your edit sounds rather similar. You might want to take a look into the community guidelines. > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It destroys intellectual curiosity, which the site exists for.
- stirfrykitty 7y ago
  Thank you for your civil reply. Nothing political or ideological in stating that prison labor for the public good is a good thing. It is. That's a fact. Prisoners owe the public for their malfeasance, hence their serving time to pay back society for breaking the social compact. I will say, however, that this site appears and acts disproportionately left in its operation. And while I am a very far right ultra-traditionalist, I can happily exist around others with differing opinions. Notice, if you will, that I never vote anyone down. People are entitled to opinions. The left seems militantly opposed to any viewpoint that challenges their narrative. Voltaire applies...

mikeash 7y ago

Reminder that prison slavery is explicitly allowed by the 13th amendment. We really should amend it.

geezerjay 7y ago
> Reminder that prison slavery Aren't those prison jobs open only to volunteers among the prison population?
- mikeash 7y ago
  It depends on the program. Some are voluntary. Some are “voluntary” with the prisoner receiving time off their sentence in exchange, which is effectively punishing them by imprisoning them longer if they refuse. Some are just outright involuntary.

komali2 7y ago

The waffling on ethics demonstrated in the article doesn't seem as ambiguous to me. Is it ok to pay below minimum wage, if the prisoners are gaining useful skills? No. It's not ok. 1. We have no system of accountability measuring worth of useful skills against amount under minimum wage the prisoner is getting paid. Is upholstery worth 3$ less an hour, or 4$? Are they actually learning upholstery? How do we know? Is upholstery actually a valuable skill? How do we know? 2. We have not allowed other people to be paid less than minimum wage, why prisoners? "Useful skills" is not a valid excuse (except for interns sometimes, which I also disagree with). I don't agree that it should be considered part of the punishment as the jury and judge had no say in the amount under minimum wage the prisoner would be paid. There's no transparency or accountability. 3. It doesn't make economic sense. Why pay someone minimum wage to upholster, when you can buy the work on the cheap from the prisons? The prisons have thus evaded our imposed market controls and have an unfair advantage. 4. Prisoners are humans and (generally) US citizens. It is not cool to devalue them by paying them less.

mieseratte 7y ago
> why prisoners? Offset tax-burden incurred by their incarceration. Private companies profiteering on prison labor is a different story. > It is not cool to devalue them by paying them less. They're prisoners. Society has already devalued them.
- komali2 7y ago
  > Offset tax-burden incurred by their incarceration. I don't agree that this is a valid justification. I pay taxes that go to funding the department of education despite never "participating" in any direct department of education activity. We don't make parents "offset" that cost when they send kids to public school (no, we make the teachers do that by forcing them to use their own money to buy chalk), why should we make a prisoner suddenly be more responsible for a tax burden carried by all of society? This is creating a "separate tax class," in my mind, which defeats the purpose entirely. We all pay in, we all benefit, we all use what we can/need/want of the system (minus the glaring deficiencies). > They're prisoners. Society has already devalued them. We agree. I think that it's bad to devalue them.

dang 7y ago

Would you please review the site guidelines and follow the rules here? Your last paragraph broke them badly. I realize it stings to get downvoted but it happens to everyone—and the site rules require you to have self-discipline about it and not lash back. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

stirfrykitty 7y ago
Edited to remove last paragraph. Thank you for the info and link.
- dang 7y ago
  Thanks! I've detached my reply from the original thread and collapsed it.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

tathougies 7y ago

Did the student journalist also 'expose' the fact that prisoners are not free to do as they please, given that they're -- you know -- criminals?

moate 7y ago
People in their community were unaware of the fact that prison labor was being used to complete school needs. These journalists wrote an article about it and the community at large took notice of the issue. What exactly is your point? That this (prison labor in this community being used for this purpose) is common knowledge? Or that these kids didn't go far enough? Journos shined light on something, the community took issue with it and things changed because of it. Sounds like the 4th estate is still alive and well on this one my dude.
- tathougies 7y ago
  My point is that being forced to do labor should fall under the whole 'deprived of liberty' part of being imprisoned. It should be common knowledge and unsurprising that prisoners are not free. That's sorta the definition...

40acres 7y ago

Slavery by another name. Think of all the perverse incentives that come along with the ability to access prison labor -- an ever present need for a robust population (a.k.a locking minorities up), lax regulation in terms of various labor laws and general exploitation of labor without the need to pay market costs (wages, healthcare, etc.).

noetic_techy 7y ago

Most prisoners want something to do than sit and do nothing, and are happy to be paid even if its below minimum wage. We cant have them accumulating tons of money while in prison with no outside bills, that's just not fair to the taxpayer. You also don't want to incentive's going to prison as some sort of decent alternative lifestyle on the taxpayers dime. They should be free to sign up and work if they want to. On the other hand, there should be no incentive to incarcerate simply for the labor pool. That's the part that's amoral, not the labor. Good intentions, bad outcomes.

fzeroracer 7y ago
Prisoners should be paid the same wage as everyone else. There is no reason to deny them minimum wage because that is effectively slavery. And prisoners should be able to accumulate money because it makes their reintegration into society easier. What's unfair to the taxpayer is a system designed to punish and not rehabilitate because that makes repeat offenders out of prisoners. Right now we punish prisoners and give them nothing once we kick them out of prison. It should come as no surprise that they return to selling drugs or crime to survive.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
crooked-v 7y ago
> We cant have them accumulating tons of money while in prison with no outside bills, that's just not fair to the taxpayer. Actually, as being able to leave prison with a small nest egg would almost certainly reduce recidivism, it would probably be more fair to the taxpayer than the current system. > You also don't want to incentive's going to prison as some sort of decent alternative lifestyle on the taxpayers dime. Living in a cell while earning minimum wage isn't a "decent lifestyle", it's merely slightly less awful than prisons in the US currently are.
- ryanmercer 7y ago
  >Actually, as being able to leave prison with a small nest egg would almost certainly reduce recidivism, it would probably be more fair to the taxpayer than the current system. Or it would give people bankrolls to go out and jumpstart their dealing, buy a weapon for their next string of robberies, get spent at a bar/strip club the first week out, get spent on sex workers after a few years of abstinence, used to immediately buy drugs for personal use after forced sobriety. Or just strengthen the gangs inside prisons "hey bubba, we know you've got to have a few thousand dollars in that account, you'd better give it to us or you might not live very long. Congrats you've got a new girlfriend her name is Jane Smith, add her to your visitor list then transfer the funds to her on the outside"