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> This is one of the reasons I dropped out of crypto for years, most of its supporters were completely delusional and tragically uninformed about actual banks.

> This is one of the reasons I dropped out of crypto for years, most of its supporters were completely delusional and tragically uninformed about actual banks. The reason I stayed in is because Bitcoin solved a seemingly intractable problem, it works in the real world, and it's survived and even thrived in the face of fierce attacks for a decade. Yes, there are many shills who are delusional and ignorant. Yes, speculators and fraudsters are running wild. None of that changes the fundamental characteristics that make this a fascinating and promising technology, network and social movement.

sprafa 7y ago
Yes true, this is why I “dropped out of it” then eventually came back to it. The fact that I have Venezuelan friends who started hoarding it to avoid capital controls in their country convinced me of its usefulness and long-term viability.
- headsoup 7y ago
  So long as someone is there willing to pay the same price for those coins. Do the grocery stores, butchers and other providers accept Bitcoin there? How do they value their goods against a 'currency' that is growing X00% weekly?
  - gomox 7y ago
    The mild fluctuations of the Bitcoin price can look like a walk in the park compared to the Venezuelan local currency.
    - headsoup 7y ago
      I'm not familiar with the history, but is Venezuela's currency constantly volatile or are recent events an anomaly? How do you define Bitcoin's fluctuations as 'mild' - i.e what are you comparing it to other than the local currency to determine stability?
      - gomox 7y ago
        The comment was mostly tongue in cheek. Venezuelan currency has been hyperinflating for a while. So people are used to referencing prices in currencies other than the one used for the actual payment.
  - conanbatt 7y ago
    You have brokers that move dollars for bitcoin. So you turn it to actual cash. The key part is that there is no bank involved at any step.
creato 7y ago
> and it's survived and even thrived in the face of fierce attacks for a decade What fierce attacks has bitcoin faced? Sure, lots of people mock and criticize it, but no real action has been taken. The people criticizing it have just as much influence (or maybe even less) than the delusional and ignorant true believers. To me, a fierce attack would be regulatory action taken by various world governments, but that hasn't happened. To the contrary, even countries that probably should care (e.g. China, with its capital controls, and bitcoin mining seemingly used to evade them) appear not to. If anything, that shows just how insignificant bitcoin is. My vague impression (I don't follow this closely) of US regulators is that they have given bitcoin reasonable or even slightly favorable treatment.
- CodiePetersen 7y ago
  >>Sure, lots of people mock and criticize it, Bitcoin and crypto only survive because of trust. There was a time, especially on Bloomberg, when the news was constantly criticising it and sowing mistrust. "It's only used by hackers" or "hit men are murdering people for crypto on the dark web" or "terrorist are funding operations with crypto.". So there have been countless efforts to break the core of what makes a currency valuable. Additionally, Bitcoin specifically is illegal in several countries, China being one of them. The US has also seized several piles of bitcoin and like they do with other seized assets they put it up for auction. These guys buy the stuff up cheap and immediately sell it. Now that's not a specific attack but it is damaging to prices. Lastly exchanges are requiring photo id to buy things now because of regulation which makes it even harder for people to get into. I can buy bullets and in some cases guns more easily. So there is actually plenty, not to mention numerous attacks on the network in the early days. Who knows who was behind those.
- mntmoss 7y ago
  With Bitcoin, there are certain elements that make it desirable as a bargaining chip during internal power struggles. The claim of banking and government being joined at the hip is true due to pragmatic convenience: If you want to have power over things like militaries and social services, you need a solution for financing and that sends you into the arms of the bankers. But if you start having an option to opt out, to say as a large institution, "we don't need you," then the banks have to start to compete. At the end of that struggle, you still have a government in control of its financing, but the shape of it, borne through so many battles, is likely to be more efficient.

sprafa 7y ago

Yes true, this is why I “dropped out of it” then eventually came back to it. The fact that I have Venezuelan friends who started hoarding it to avoid capital controls in their country convinced me of its usefulness and long-term viability.

headsoup 7y ago
So long as someone is there willing to pay the same price for those coins. Do the grocery stores, butchers and other providers accept Bitcoin there? How do they value their goods against a 'currency' that is growing X00% weekly?
- gomox 7y ago
  The mild fluctuations of the Bitcoin price can look like a walk in the park compared to the Venezuelan local currency.
  - headsoup 7y ago
    I'm not familiar with the history, but is Venezuela's currency constantly volatile or are recent events an anomaly? How do you define Bitcoin's fluctuations as 'mild' - i.e what are you comparing it to other than the local currency to determine stability?
    - gomox 7y ago
      The comment was mostly tongue in cheek. Venezuelan currency has been hyperinflating for a while. So people are used to referencing prices in currencies other than the one used for the actual payment.
- conanbatt 7y ago
  You have brokers that move dollars for bitcoin. So you turn it to actual cash. The key part is that there is no bank involved at any step.

creato 7y ago

> and it's survived and even thrived in the face of fierce attacks for a decade What fierce attacks has bitcoin faced? Sure, lots of people mock and criticize it, but no real action has been taken. The people criticizing it have just as much influence (or maybe even less) than the delusional and ignorant true believers. To me, a fierce attack would be regulatory action taken by various world governments, but that hasn't happened. To the contrary, even countries that probably should care (e.g. China, with its capital controls, and bitcoin mining seemingly used to evade them) appear not to. If anything, that shows just how insignificant bitcoin is. My vague impression (I don't follow this closely) of US regulators is that they have given bitcoin reasonable or even slightly favorable treatment.

CodiePetersen 7y ago
>>Sure, lots of people mock and criticize it, Bitcoin and crypto only survive because of trust. There was a time, especially on Bloomberg, when the news was constantly criticising it and sowing mistrust. "It's only used by hackers" or "hit men are murdering people for crypto on the dark web" or "terrorist are funding operations with crypto.". So there have been countless efforts to break the core of what makes a currency valuable. Additionally, Bitcoin specifically is illegal in several countries, China being one of them. The US has also seized several piles of bitcoin and like they do with other seized assets they put it up for auction. These guys buy the stuff up cheap and immediately sell it. Now that's not a specific attack but it is damaging to prices. Lastly exchanges are requiring photo id to buy things now because of regulation which makes it even harder for people to get into. I can buy bullets and in some cases guns more easily. So there is actually plenty, not to mention numerous attacks on the network in the early days. Who knows who was behind those.
mntmoss 7y ago
With Bitcoin, there are certain elements that make it desirable as a bargaining chip during internal power struggles. The claim of banking and government being joined at the hip is true due to pragmatic convenience: If you want to have power over things like militaries and social services, you need a solution for financing and that sends you into the arms of the bankers. But if you start having an option to opt out, to say as a large institution, "we don't need you," then the banks have to start to compete. At the end of that struggle, you still have a government in control of its financing, but the shape of it, borne through so many battles, is likely to be more efficient.