12 ms·
Getting shot by a handgun
- colanderman 16y agoMaybe I'm missing something, but what kind of units are "foot pounds per square inch"? That's definitely not a pressure...
- epochwolf 16y agoA foot pound is the amount of force required to move a pound of material one foot. By adding a surface area it becomes a measure of pressure.
- someone_here 16y agoAny amount of material can be moved any distance with an infinitesimal amount of force, given enough time... or maybe I'm missing something.
- ErrantX 16y agoNot quite; friction has it's say first :)
- Zak 16y agoIt's the amount of energy required to lift one pound vertically by one foot, or the amount of momentum a one pound object gains by falling one foot in a vacuum.
- hugh3 16y agoMuch of the confusion here comes from the fact that a pound is used both as a unit of force and as a unit of mass. This is one of the many reasons y'all should use SI.
- jimmyk 16y agoA foot pound is the amount of energy used when applying one pound of force over the distance of one foot (specifically, with the direction of the force being the same as the direction of movement). So, if you use one pound of force to move an object one foot, you have used one foot pound of energy (or about 1.355 Joules). Pounds per surface area is pressure. Foot pounds per surface area is something else.
- mfukar 16y agoIt's force per unit area, sounds like pressure.
- hugh3 16y agoUh, isn't a pound-per-square-inch a pressure? A foot-pound-per-square-inch is a rather odd unit of energy.
- a1k0n 16y agoYes, a foot-pound per square inch would be a unit of torque per area. Maybe the bullet twisted its way in.
- jimmyk 16y agoNot exactly. Here, foot-pound refers to the energy of the bullet, which can be calculated by taking the dot product of the force and the distance, where the force and distance refer to how far the bullet could exert some force. Taking the dot product means that only the components of the force and distance that are in the same direction are used to calculate the result. When calculating torque, the force is applied in a direction perpendicular to the distance that is measured, because the distance refers to the distance between the place where the force is exerted and the center of rotation. Therefore torque is calculated by taking the cross product of the force and the distance. So while the units look the same, what they are measuring is different.
- Zak 16y agoFoot pounds are a commonly used unit of energy when discussing small projectiles such as bullets, pellets, arrows and bolts. I believe the author's use of "foot pounds per square inch" was an error. WolframAlpha calculates the energy of a 40 grain bullet at 1550 feet per second to be 213.3 foot pounds, not 324. Winchester claims that a 40 grain .22 magnum bullet from a rifle-length barrel exits the muzzle at 1910 feet per second and has 324 foot pounds of kinetic energy. WolframAlpha agrees.
- amalcon 16y agoEnergy per area? A foot-pound is a unit of energy, analogous to a Joule, defined as the amount of energy required to apply one pound of force over a distance of one foot. I can see a use for such a unit; it's just not one I've ever encountered before.
- jimmyk 16y agoWell, a watt per square meter is a measure of irradiance, so I guess if you integrate that with respect to time you'd get joules per square meter. But I don't know if that gives you anything interesting.
- amalcon 16y agoThe use I had in mind was for the energy cost of producing a material of uniform or irrelevant thickness, such as aluminum foil or photovoltaic cells.
- commandar 16y agoFoot-pounds is very commonly used to measure firearm projectile energy; I've never seen foot-pounds per square inch before, though.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- GiraffeNecktie 16y agoI've had a pneumothorax - the collapsed lung part of his experience - which required major surgery and a painful recuperation. That was awful enough on its own but was only a tiny part of what he experienced. Yikes.
- mwilcox 16y agoI've had a pneumomediastinum - similar thing but right next to my heart. Pretty scary just having a massive pain in your chest and not knowing what's wrong. I was lucky though and didn't need any surgery and it just cleared up on its own.
- iamelgringo 16y agoYou are lucky. Pneumomediasitnum gets particularly nasty if you the reason you have it is a torn esophagus, and you have partially eaten food (along with the air) leaking into the sack around your heart.
- mtr 16y agoI've had three (all spontaneous). The first one was pretty serious and they had to put in a chest tube in a bit of a hurry, so nothing aside from a small amount of topical anesthetic. Seeing them stuff several inches of a metal tube directly into your chest is like being shot in slow motion.
- rdl 16y agoI strongly advise against getting shot. My limited first-ass experience: I got hit by a 9mm FMJ ricochet. Someone put a round into a concrete floor near me, and the bullet broke apart and a piece hit me, or a piece of concrete hit me in the back of the thigh; it left a mark, but didn't break the skin; we found the bullet completely deformed with the jacket shredded in several pieces). The worst part was the sound; despite shooting a lot, it was the first time I'd ever been next to a firearm fired inside a 3m x 2m x 3m concrete room without wearing hearing protection. I also had a sore throat from yelling at the guy for the next ~15 minutes. Strangely, I wasn't actually afraid until the next day (when I realized how easy it would have been for the guy to have shot me in the leg instead, or for the ricochet to have hit me somewhere important nearby, etc.) Temporary deafness (wax basically protects your ear from further damage by blocking the ear canal; I used hydrogen peroxide to clean it out later, and let a medic look at it with an otoscope to make sure the eardrum wasn't too damaged). The whole experience made me 1) trust people even less and 2) want to become a certified emt or paramedic at some point, mainly to deal with trauma.
- archon 16y agoI have a similar anecdote, and strangely enough, a similar reaction. A group of us were preparing for an IDPA match at a local gun range. One of our most experienced members got a little too complacent and was joking with a friend after finishing a course of fire. He ignored the range safety officer standing next to him. He didn't clear his weapon before he holstered it, and as he holstered it, his hand slipped and the weapon discharged. We all thought he was fine, and so did he. The range safety officer was in the middle of yelling at him when one of the other members noticed that the guy was bleeding pretty heavily from his right leg. He'd given himself a nice 9mm through-and-through wound to the calf. The round didn't hit anything important, and we got the bleeding stopped and him off to a hospital without much problem. A few weeks later, before our next shoot, our group met with a local paramedic and an ER doctor for an informal crash course in gunshot trauma treatment.
- rdl 16y agoBeing an RSO is one of the most unpleasant jobs I've ever had. It's even worse on ranges where you're training people who may already want to kill you, or may just shoot you if you try to impart useful training tips like "please maintain muzzle discipline" or "use both hands", which I thankfully have never had to do.
- iamelgringo 16y agoSpeaking from years of experience working as an ER nurse in the Chicago ghetto... He drew a short straw on the weapon of choice. .22 caliber slugs tend to bounce around inside a person. Anything carrying more energy would likely have shattered his scapula, and gone clean through him. The energy of the slug wouldn't have been used up bouncing around his chest. I took care of a person shot in the ankle with a .22. The entrance wound was in his ankle and the exit wound was in his groin. Another client had a single hole in his skull with no exit wound. Needless to say, the poor sap didn't do well after having a slug rattle around inside his skull for a while. But I digress. I just finished watching the first season of The Wire tonight. It reminded me a lot of my stint in Chicago, and I guess I have ballistics on my mind. Back to coding...
- rdl 16y agoAside from the ease of sound suppressing them, and the small size of the weapons, there is a reason some of the best hit squads in the world use the .22lr! Admittedly, a .22WMR is pretty much a different animal than the .22lr. Out of a rifle, it would have probably been a through and through, assuming a FMJ bullet -- you'd probably get 2000fps for a 40gr. A JSP might not have, and out of a Ruger Single Six, it's a lot closer to a really hot .22lr rifle.
- jacobolus 16y agoYour post is nearly indecipherable for a non-expert.
- joakin 16y agoFascinating story... More than the shotgun (I would spect to die and Im not very curious on that matter) what really intrigues me is what would I feel after 10 years of zero sexual activity. Sexual feelings are really strong, that has to cause real pain through the years, I dont know if being grateful of being alive could easily overcome them
- chloraphil 16y agoShotgun?
- natrius 16y agoGunshot.
- joakin 16y agoOops, I cant edit now :S Thx for the correction
- chloraphil 16y agoThanks.
- GFischer 16y agoI had to skip to the relevant section as I had no idea what you were talking about, but it's indeed stunning (and probably very hard on him): "I had no feeling in my groin--meaning no future physical sexual feelings, and no ability to masturbate--and still having a huge sex drive..." "I had never had sex.." "Even being married, and having a willing sexual partner, I find myself doing almost all of the pleasing, and I suppose I will never know what it is like to be inside a woman--to actually FEEL it at all--or orgasm therein."
- napierzaza 16y agoYour heard it here first. Being shot once feels like being shot three times. But is it linear? If I was shot 3 times would it feel like 9 times or even more?
- dmitri1981 16y agoHe didn't say it 'felt' like being shot three times. He said it was like being shot three times due to the bullet ricocheting inside his chest.
- nostrademons 16y agoNon-linkjacked version: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=467321 http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=467321
- tomerico 16y agoThanks, the context of the question made this post much clearer.
- bmurphy 16y agoInteresting, but I really don't think this belongs here.
- scotth 16y agoRead the guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- daten 16y agoIf you see a story that you think doesn't belong, please click the "flag" link for that story. Enough clicks from different users will affect how visible the story is or if it gets removed.
- JonnieCache 16y agoI think his impassive, detailed, technical description/narrative will chime with a lot of people here, in a way that it wouldn't at other communities.
- Chris_Morrell 16y agoI found this disturbingly fascinating in a similar manner to reading autopsy or accident reports. It was clear and explained a process that I wasn't familiar with even though I shoot a .22 target pistol and .22 target rifle. Between the linked article and some of the comments it gave me a new found respect for my peashooters.
- Nekojoe 16y agoOn a similar note George Orwell got shot once in the Spanish Civil war. This article documents his thoughts on it - http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/soldiers/george-orwell-shot.html http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/soldiers/george-orwell-shot.h...
- freshfey 16y agoMaybe I missed that particular point but how did he get shot?
- marknutter 16y agoIt doesn't say
- rokhayakebe 16y agoHe shot himself.
- freshfey 16y agoIf your answer wasn't meant as a joke -> No, it says "I myself was shot" not I shot myself.
- rokhayakebe 16y agoJoke? I couldn't joke about a deadly situation. I accidentally read "I shot myself". Now as a side note, I want to say to everyone who downvoted my comment without saying why, I think this is an idiot's move. Yes, I am saying it. At least if you are going to do it, give a feedback. Otherwise you haven't added anything to the conversation. And just so you know, it's not about karma. It's about you not adding anything to the conversation.
- jholman 16y agoIn response to your sidenote, bullshit. Whining about downvotes without "saying why" is an idiot's move. Replying to that whining (as I am doing now) might possibly be an idiot's move, I'm not sure. But voting is not an idiot's move, and lack of explanation does not make it so. Upvotes and downvotes add the same thing to the conversation: 1) They're a system by which the collective collectively modifies what comments get seen, and in what order 2) They're a system of feedback about what is a valuable contribution Neither of those contributions requires "saying why". Of course, it is true that the second function works a lot better if the voter communicates a "why", that's easy to see. But it's easy to see that the first function is served just fine by voting without comments (and indeed, since your downvoted comment was erroneous, the conversation benefited from it being removed via downvoting). Further, we all already know that some explanations of "why" distract from the conversation more than they contribute. The most-obvious example is "+1 agree" or "+1 this", or even "+1 this comment told me something I didn't know". Or, in your case, people could have commented "-1 unsubstantiated" or "-1 parent post misread FA" or something. Either way, whining about voting _really_ doesn't add to the conversation. If I had downvote ability, I'd downvoting comments that complain about downvotes. tl;dr: Downvotes without explanations are just as much a positive contribution to the conversation as upvotes.
- cookiecaper 16y agoI know an ex-intelligence officer. He's been shot multiple times, and says that getting shot really hurts. I assume it was even worse than usual for him since he was in the field and couldn't quite waltz into the nearby hospital for treatment. He also says getting shot is worse when you're running away from someone than when it takes you by surprise. He said some other things, but I don't really remember them.
- rwhitman 16y agoIf you do a google search to find out who this guy is you'll discover that this story has been copied in a number of different answer sites and blogs for the last 5 years. But no info on who this is or the backstory on the context of why he got shot.
- dkarl 16y agoAbout fifteen years ago I read a book summarizing research into the effects of different types and calibers of handguns and handgun ammunition. (Long story short: Clinton was trying to ban semiautomatic handguns or something, so my dad developed a sudden interest in buying a gun, and he borrowed some books from a friend who was quite an enthusiast.) The study was a survey of thousands of police reports on shootings, and it was done by a law enforcement guy to help law enforcement departments make an intelligent decision about what kinds of guns and ammo to standardize on. He provided a lot of statistics and made some recommendations, but the overriding theme and message of the book was that the result of shooting someone, or being shot, is unpredictable no matter what kind of weapon is involved. Some examples: A fatal bullet through the heart can leave a guy up and shooting for over ten seconds -- obviously an eternity for a law enforcement officer in a point-blank shootout. A guy can get shot and not know it. Police officers are trained to check themselves carefully when any shots are fired, because it has happened that officers thought they were unharmed, went home, laid down to rest, and bled to death. A guy can be in a shootout and THINK he got shot, and it turns out there's not a mark on him. They get knocked over, feel intense pain, cry out, etc. There were enough of these cases that the researchers were able to find some involving officers who were previously decorated for valor and had in fact been shot before. A guy can get shot multiple times with a powerful weapon and get lucky, or he can get shot with a tiny weapon and get unlucky. I still remember the story used to illustrate this: a fight between roommates got ugly, and one guy shot the other six times in the chest with a .45. The second guy went to his attic, found his great-grandfather's Civil War-era relic small caliber revolver (something like a .22), went back downstairs, and shot his roommate through the heart, killing him. Forty-eight hours later, his desire for medical care overcame his aversion to getting caught, and he walked into an emergency room. He recovered completely. The book had a lot of complicated reasoning about the trade-offs involved in choosing handguns and ammunition and made some strong recommendations, but I don't remember any of the specifics. I just remember the author stressing over and over again not to expect any particular result when you shoot somebody.
- G_Wen 16y agohttp://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf Here's a PDF analyzing the effectiveness of firearms. It was written in 1989 so it is a bit out of date. Perhaps someone with more experience with firearms can check to see if the article is still relevant. It does confirm that "Even if the heart is instantly destroyed, there is sufficient oxygen in the brain to support full and complete voluntary action for 10-15 seconds".
- grammaton 16y agoIt depends entirely on where they're hit, and how much adrenaline and man-made drugs are in their blood stream. But as a common saying goes, "it's a gun, not a death ray." It's surprising - shocking even - how much damage some people can take and still keep going.
- msquared 16y agoJust have to say, before reading all of this, REALLY glad this many HN readers and posters are into this topic. Thought I was the only nut that loved technology and firearms, guess I was wrong. happy sigh
- niels_olson 16y agoDoc with a degree in physics, previously a weapons and anti-terrorism officer on an aircraft carrier and recently (a year ago) took the combined forces combat casualty care course, and have done a few trauma rotations in inner-city ERs (New Orleans and Norfolk). Chapter 1 of the Emergency War Surgery Manual (updated in 2006 to collect lessons learned from Iraq and Afghanistan) dedicates Chapter 1 to dispelling misconceptions about injuries. The science comes down on the side of the cop answering in Google: the weapon is of little use in predicting the outcome. http://www.bordeninstitute.army.mil/other_pub/ews.html http://www.bordeninstitute.army.mil/other_pub/ews.html
- bootload 16y ago"... took the combined forces combat casualty care course, and have done a few trauma rotations in inner-city ERs (New Orleans and Norfolk) ..." Interesting read. Knowing "how" to react and "reacting" in a appropriate, timely manner in a chaotic environment is a big jump even with the right kind of practice (as opposed to fake practice: http://bootload.posterous.com/through-my-eyes-fake-practice http://bootload.posterous.com/through-my-eyes-fake-practice ) especially at the first response end. How do you train for the gap between working in calm controlled environments to chaotic ones? Cudo's, HM's ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Hospital_Corpsman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Hospital_Cor... are well trained because sometimes they are the closest to medical aid you get and as such are much respected.
- kondro 16y agoSigh... Amaercians and their second amendment. There is so much anecdotal evidence in this thread. I thought that the HN community would have a greater adversion to firearms as even their ownership by a community increases the chance of fatal violence.
- noonespecial 16y agoI learned by talking to law enforcement types that used to hang around our computer store that unlike the "violent ballet" in movies most gunfights unfold with both combatants clumsily emptying their weapons in each others general direction, then staggering out to wait for the paramedics.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- JCTony 16y agoAnyone have access to some real footage?
- EBNV 16y agoI am trying to find an answer here. I was shot by a .22 from some kind of semi auto pistol. It was night on a porch with 1 60watt light on. I rushed to the door after hearing my daughter screaming opened the screen to see a boy on the porch turn toward me with a semi hand gun in his right hand. He was 1-2 feet away.as I saw the gun coming around to shoot me. I knew I had to get the gun and reached for it with intense urgency. I saw a flash and felt something hit my upper chest HARD.and heard a 'pop' I remember thinking I failed horribly and was going to die. The next thing I remember I was chasing him down the street hitting him with the butt of the gun until all I was hitting him with was the barrel. ...much happened.. As I was calling 911 very distressed I told them I had been shot -- but looking down I could see no blood and no hole in my white cotton shirt.. The police recovered a .22 slug a couple feet inside the door to the left (door opens to the right) ..and no I have never owned a .22 and the slug in no way belonged on the floor. I later found what looked like a lead colored smudge mark above a button hole on my white shirt and my chest was bright red behind that spot. How the heck did that .22 not enter my chest? I had a thick cotton work shirt on with a tee shirt on beneath it -- But that is not enough to block a .22 in my experience. ?Anyone? This happened 4 days ago so my recollection is fairly fresh.