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The normal tclkit runtime with Tk is 6.1 Mb of disk space and 10-15 Mb of ram. The most bloated Tcl/Tk runtime I could find (undroidwish tcl/tk running on SDL

by pmarin 7y ago

The normal tclkit runtime with Tk is 6.1 Mb of disk space and 10-15 Mb of ram. The most bloated Tcl/Tk runtime I could find (undroidwish tcl/tk running on SDL + OpenGL and Anti-grain backend) is 23 Mb of disk space and 42 Mb of ram (including all the shared libraries). Hard to compare with a web engine in functionality and ram usage.

jlongster 7y ago
I just tried to get started with tclkit to try it out. The first result for "getting started tclkit" has links with 404. I was able to download a prebuilt binary for macOS which does run, but I can't find any clear tutorials for how to start building apps (the top result for "getting started" is from 2008). I decided to try some example apps instead, so downloaded some .kit files and tried to run them: % ./tclkit-8.6.3-macosx10.5-ix86+x86_64 fractal.kit 2019-06-25 12:14:12.541 tclkit-8.6.3-macosx10.5-ix86+x86_64[18970:1942703] -[TKWindow setCanCycle:]: unrecognized selector sent to instance 0x10023a910 2019-06-25 12:14:12.542 tclkit-8.6.3-macosx10.5-ix86+x86_64[18970:1942703] * Terminating app due to uncaught exception 'NSInvalidArgumentException', reason: '-[TKWindow setCanCycle:]: unrecognized selector sent to instance 0x10023a910' It crashes. Hard to compare with the ecosystem and maturity of the web.
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
  In my experience as a webdeveloper this is exactly the experience of the web.
mhd 7y ago
I was comparing it to the average RAM of computers when Tcl/Tk was still in its hype cycle and you heard bloat arguments against it, which must've been the 90s. When Tk was still yellow-ish.
- pmarin 7y ago
  I am sorry I misunderstood your comment.
  - mhd 7y ago
    My fault, could've expressed it better. And as someone who actually like(d) Tcl/Tk, I understand the urge to defend it perfectly. If we're comparing UI implementation languages, it doesn't look good from a historic perspective. PostScript was pretty much better than all its successors. Tcl/Tk had a decent approach as something Unix-y, and I don't even want to know what will come after JS/CSS/HTML if we're continuing that arc.
mwcampbell 7y ago
Please don't use Tk for new applications, unless they're just for your own use. Tk is completely inaccessible to blind users, and probably people with some other disabilities as well. As much as people may hate Electron, it is better in this area, or at least can be if the app uses good HTML.

by pmarin 7y ago

jlongster 7y ago

I just tried to get started with tclkit to try it out. The first result for "getting started tclkit" has links with 404. I was able to download a prebuilt binary for macOS which does run, but I can't find any clear tutorials for how to start building apps (the top result for "getting started" is from 2008). I decided to try some example apps instead, so downloaded some .kit files and tried to run them: % ./tclkit-8.6.3-macosx10.5-ix86+x86_64 fractal.kit 2019-06-25 12:14:12.541 tclkit-8.6.3-macosx10.5-ix86+x86_64[18970:1942703] -[TKWindow setCanCycle:]: unrecognized selector sent to instance 0x10023a910 2019-06-25 12:14:12.542 tclkit-8.6.3-macosx10.5-ix86+x86_64[18970:1942703] * Terminating app due to uncaught exception 'NSInvalidArgumentException', reason: '-[TKWindow setCanCycle:]: unrecognized selector sent to instance 0x10023a910' It crashes. Hard to compare with the ecosystem and maturity of the web.

hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
In my experience as a webdeveloper this is exactly the experience of the web.

mhd 7y ago

I was comparing it to the average RAM of computers when Tcl/Tk was still in its hype cycle and you heard bloat arguments against it, which must've been the 90s. When Tk was still yellow-ish.

pmarin 7y ago
I am sorry I misunderstood your comment.
- mhd 7y ago
  My fault, could've expressed it better. And as someone who actually like(d) Tcl/Tk, I understand the urge to defend it perfectly. If we're comparing UI implementation languages, it doesn't look good from a historic perspective. PostScript was pretty much better than all its successors. Tcl/Tk had a decent approach as something Unix-y, and I don't even want to know what will come after JS/CSS/HTML if we're continuing that arc.

mwcampbell 7y ago

Please don't use Tk for new applications, unless they're just for your own use. Tk is completely inaccessible to blind users, and probably people with some other disabilities as well. As much as people may hate Electron, it is better in this area, or at least can be if the app uses good HTML.