4 ms·

Seeing the word concentration tramp unironically being used in a current world is obscene. Where did that even come from? That cropped fake photo on twitter?

by s9w 7y ago

eesmith 7y ago
https://www.newsweek.com/concentration-camps-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-trump-border-1444843 https://www.newsweek.com/concentration-camps-alexandria-ocas... > "Concentration camps are considered by experts as 'the mass detention of civilians without trial.' Even without photos, we know there is mass detention of civilians without trial. Do you deny that? What term do you want to use? From the same link: > We don't say 'prisons' because prisons are a part of the formal legal system," Lester Andrist, a sociologist who has studied indefinite detention, tweeted. Or would you prefer "internment camp", like we used for Japanese Americans? From the same link: > "I know what concentration camps are. I was inside two of them, in America. And yes, we are operating such camps again," the Takei tweeted. The Takei family was interned in Arkansas and California in the 1940s. Or perhaps you want to reserve 'concentration camp' only for the Nazi death camps? From the same link: > Federico Finchelstein, a historian at the New York-based New School, agreed that the progressive congresswoman is right to call the ICE facilities concentration camps. > "As [a] historian of fascism & [the] Holocaust, I would also call these centers concentration camps," Finchelstein tweeted. "As a Jewish person who lost family in [the] Holocaust, I regret that some Republicans use memory of the Holocaust to defend racist policies of Trumpism." From https://beta.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/20/concentration-camps-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-japanese-americans/?outputType=amp https://beta.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/20/concentrat... : > A 1998 Ellis Island exhibit drew outcry from the Jewish community and others after the Japanese American National Museum titled it, “America’s Concentration Camps: Remembering the Japanese American Experience.” To the museum’s curators — and to many historians and leading Japanese American organizations today — “internment” or “relocation camps” were euphemisms for the reality of what Japanese Americans endured. President Franklin D. Roosevelt and Supreme Court justices, the museum noted, had both referred to the Japanese American camps as concentration camps. > ... Ultimately, Jewish and Japanese American groups held meetings to reach an understanding, Schiffrin reported. The exhibit’s title stayed, but with one long footnote on the flier, making clear that it was not an attempt to directly compare the Japanese-American camps to Nazi camps.
- s9w 7y ago
  AOC said "never again" in her concentration camp remarks, CLEARLY making the connection to WW2 concentration camps.
  - boapnuaput 7y ago
    Oregonian here. Yes, she was talking about WW2 concentration camps. It's disgusting that you've forgotten that, during WW2, we ran concentration camps too, for Japanese-Americans and others who we failed to trust in spite of their citizenship. Read the parent comment again. George Takei was in one of these camps!
    - RickJWagner 7y ago
      No, those were not concentration camps. They were internment camps. Big difference. Concentration camps were murder centers. Internment camps were not.
      - eesmith 7y ago
        FDR, Eisenhower, and many other high-ranking government officials at the time referred to the Japanese 'internment camps' also as 'concentration camps'. See http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/g_l/haiku/camps.htm http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/g_l/haiku/camps.h... as an example of how in the 1990s there was already the complaint that it "seems strange that we are still debating the use of terms describing this event" when it was well-established that the Japanese were indeed in concentration camps in all but official name. It also gives quotes, like Truman in 1961 saying "They were concentration camps. They called it relocation but they put them in concentration camps, and I was against it. We were in a period of emergency, but it was still the wrong thing to do." The term "concentration camp" was also used in the Spanish-American and Boer Wars, for something other than "murder centers". All evidence I've seen says that calling these facilities something other than "concentration camp" is a euphemism to hide the atrocities that we are committing YET AGAIN.
- whamlastxmas 7y ago
mcphage 7y ago
> Seeing the word concentration tramp unironically being used in a current world is obscene. No, what's obscene is what we're doing to children. THAT is obscene.
- RandomInteger4 7y ago
  Forcing them to cross deserts while sick with no food or water? Oh, wait, no, that's what their traffickers from Honduras and elsewhere are doing as they claim that those children belong to them when they reach the border so that they can receive higher priority treatment, whereupon they enter and recycle the kids back across the border.
  - mcphage 7y ago
    > Oh, wait, no, that's what their traffickers from Honduras and elsewhere So you're using the fact that these kids are the victims of human trafficking, to make them suffer even more? Do you even listen to what you're saying?
    - RandomInteger4 7y ago
      I'm saying that they're better off in Border Patrol facilities than being repeatedly trafficked across the desert, recycled over and over again to create fake family after fake family for criminals to get into the united states. It might help us provide a more humane experience for them while in these facilities if we didn't have politically motivated Democrats demagoguing and grandstanding, trying to play off our emotions for election points, whilst denying funding for these facilities. But NOPE! I guess we can't fund these facilities, because the progressive wing of the party has collectively fallen into the delusion that we're in pre-WW2 Germany and Trump is a Nazi, just because they don't like the guy. It's the most ridiculous paranoia I've come across, which is saying something coming from me considering how generally paranoid I am personally. There's no basis for it. None whatsoever.
      - mcphage 7y ago

Seeing the word concentration tramp unironically being used in a current world is obscene. Where did that even come from? That cropped fake photo on twitter?

by s9w 7y ago

Seeing the word concentration tramp unironically being used in a current world is obscene. Where did that even come from? That cropped fake photo on twitter?

eesmith 7y ago

https://www.newsweek.com/concentration-camps-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-trump-border-1444843 https://www.newsweek.com/concentration-camps-alexandria-ocas... > "Concentration camps are considered by experts as 'the mass detention of civilians without trial.' Even without photos, we know there is mass detention of civilians without trial. Do you deny that? What term do you want to use? From the same link: > We don't say 'prisons' because prisons are a part of the formal legal system," Lester Andrist, a sociologist who has studied indefinite detention, tweeted. Or would you prefer "internment camp", like we used for Japanese Americans? From the same link: > "I know what concentration camps are. I was inside two of them, in America. And yes, we are operating such camps again," the Takei tweeted. The Takei family was interned in Arkansas and California in the 1940s. Or perhaps you want to reserve 'concentration camp' only for the Nazi death camps? From the same link: > Federico Finchelstein, a historian at the New York-based New School, agreed that the progressive congresswoman is right to call the ICE facilities concentration camps. > "As [a] historian of fascism & [the] Holocaust, I would also call these centers concentration camps," Finchelstein tweeted. "As a Jewish person who lost family in [the] Holocaust, I regret that some Republicans use memory of the Holocaust to defend racist policies of Trumpism." From https://beta.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/20/concentration-camps-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-japanese-americans/?outputType=amp https://beta.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/20/concentrat... : > A 1998 Ellis Island exhibit drew outcry from the Jewish community and others after the Japanese American National Museum titled it, “America’s Concentration Camps: Remembering the Japanese American Experience.” To the museum’s curators — and to many historians and leading Japanese American organizations today — “internment” or “relocation camps” were euphemisms for the reality of what Japanese Americans endured. President Franklin D. Roosevelt and Supreme Court justices, the museum noted, had both referred to the Japanese American camps as concentration camps. > ... Ultimately, Jewish and Japanese American groups held meetings to reach an understanding, Schiffrin reported. The exhibit’s title stayed, but with one long footnote on the flier, making clear that it was not an attempt to directly compare the Japanese-American camps to Nazi camps.

s9w 7y ago
AOC said "never again" in her concentration camp remarks, CLEARLY making the connection to WW2 concentration camps.
- boapnuaput 7y ago
  Oregonian here. Yes, she was talking about WW2 concentration camps. It's disgusting that you've forgotten that, during WW2, we ran concentration camps too, for Japanese-Americans and others who we failed to trust in spite of their citizenship. Read the parent comment again. George Takei was in one of these camps!
  - RickJWagner 7y ago
    No, those were not concentration camps. They were internment camps. Big difference. Concentration camps were murder centers. Internment camps were not.
    - eesmith 7y ago
      FDR, Eisenhower, and many other high-ranking government officials at the time referred to the Japanese 'internment camps' also as 'concentration camps'. See http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/g_l/haiku/camps.htm http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/poets/g_l/haiku/camps.h... as an example of how in the 1990s there was already the complaint that it "seems strange that we are still debating the use of terms describing this event" when it was well-established that the Japanese were indeed in concentration camps in all but official name. It also gives quotes, like Truman in 1961 saying "They were concentration camps. They called it relocation but they put them in concentration camps, and I was against it. We were in a period of emergency, but it was still the wrong thing to do." The term "concentration camp" was also used in the Spanish-American and Boer Wars, for something other than "murder centers". All evidence I've seen says that calling these facilities something other than "concentration camp" is a euphemism to hide the atrocities that we are committing YET AGAIN.
whamlastxmas 7y ago

mcphage 7y ago

> Seeing the word concentration tramp unironically being used in a current world is obscene. No, what's obscene is what we're doing to children. THAT is obscene.

RandomInteger4 7y ago
Forcing them to cross deserts while sick with no food or water? Oh, wait, no, that's what their traffickers from Honduras and elsewhere are doing as they claim that those children belong to them when they reach the border so that they can receive higher priority treatment, whereupon they enter and recycle the kids back across the border.
- mcphage 7y ago
  > Oh, wait, no, that's what their traffickers from Honduras and elsewhere So you're using the fact that these kids are the victims of human trafficking, to make them suffer even more? Do you even listen to what you're saying?
  - RandomInteger4 7y ago
    I'm saying that they're better off in Border Patrol facilities than being repeatedly trafficked across the desert, recycled over and over again to create fake family after fake family for criminals to get into the united states. It might help us provide a more humane experience for them while in these facilities if we didn't have politically motivated Democrats demagoguing and grandstanding, trying to play off our emotions for election points, whilst denying funding for these facilities. But NOPE! I guess we can't fund these facilities, because the progressive wing of the party has collectively fallen into the delusion that we're in pre-WW2 Germany and Trump is a Nazi, just because they don't like the guy. It's the most ridiculous paranoia I've come across, which is saying something coming from me considering how generally paranoid I am personally. There's no basis for it. None whatsoever.
    - mcphage 7y ago