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For what it's worth, China is actually more CO2 efficient compared to Western nations at similar levels of development in the past: https://www.economist.com/g

For what it's worth, China is actually more CO2 efficient compared to Western nations at similar levels of development in the past: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/05/25/china-is-surprisingly-carbon-efficient-but-still-the-worlds-biggest-emitter https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/05/25/china-is...

ptaipale 7y ago
Not surprising at all, considering that Western nations have been leading the walk on the path of technical development, from discovering the benefits of things like coal, to the discovery of downsides of things like coal. Therefore I would call this comparison anachronistic in the literal sense. One can of course always say that developing nations have a right to emit just because rich 1st world countries emitted in the past. But the outcome of this is huge emissions. And China is building a lot of coal. In any case, I don't expect the efforts to limit CO2 emissions to make much difference globally. Coal that can be easily burned will be burned. What we need to concentrate on is how we are going to deal with it.
vonmoltke 7y ago
The wrench in that analysis is that Western nation's used to direct burn coal and oil for many purposes that are now unnecessary due to technological innovation. If China had to exclusively use things like steam locomotives, coal furnaces, and oil-fired boilers for its current level of industrialization, it would be putting out just as much per capital as the US and UK 120 years ago.
taf2 7y ago
That's good news but didn't they just finish putting more CO2 into the atmosphere then all developed countries combined over 100 year in like the last 10 years? https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/07/01/china-emits-more-carbon-dioxide-than-the-u-s-and-eu-combined/#2114269b628c https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/07/01/china-emits-... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/business/china-davos-climate-change.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/business/china-davos-clim...
- andrekandre 7y ago
  yep, and a lot of that has to do with starting in the 2008-2009 global economic crisis and (still continuing) stimulating their way (and arguably by secondary effect our way) out of it by consuming huge amounts of steel and concrete https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/business/worldbusiness/15iht-g7.4.20200268.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/business/worldbusiness/15... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_stimulus_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_stimulus_prog... http://www.globalcement.com/magazine/articles/1054-global-cement-top-100-report-2017-2018 http://www.globalcement.com/magazine/articles/1054-global-ce... https://www.caixinglobal.com/2017-10-17/slowing-china-steel-consumption-stymies-global-demand-growth-101157487.html https://www.caixinglobal.com/2017-10-17/slowing-china-steel-... https://www.rfa.org/english/commentaries/energy_watch/chinas-economic-stimulus-spurs-climate-costs-01072019105749.html https://www.rfa.org/english/commentaries/energy_watch/chinas... [edit] formatting

ptaipale 7y ago

Not surprising at all, considering that Western nations have been leading the walk on the path of technical development, from discovering the benefits of things like coal, to the discovery of downsides of things like coal. Therefore I would call this comparison anachronistic in the literal sense. One can of course always say that developing nations have a right to emit just because rich 1st world countries emitted in the past. But the outcome of this is huge emissions. And China is building a lot of coal. In any case, I don't expect the efforts to limit CO2 emissions to make much difference globally. Coal that can be easily burned will be burned. What we need to concentrate on is how we are going to deal with it.

vonmoltke 7y ago

The wrench in that analysis is that Western nation's used to direct burn coal and oil for many purposes that are now unnecessary due to technological innovation. If China had to exclusively use things like steam locomotives, coal furnaces, and oil-fired boilers for its current level of industrialization, it would be putting out just as much per capital as the US and UK 120 years ago.

taf2 7y ago

That's good news but didn't they just finish putting more CO2 into the atmosphere then all developed countries combined over 100 year in like the last 10 years? https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/07/01/china-emits-more-carbon-dioxide-than-the-u-s-and-eu-combined/#2114269b628c https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/07/01/china-emits-... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/business/china-davos-climate-change.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/business/china-davos-clim...

andrekandre 7y ago
yep, and a lot of that has to do with starting in the 2008-2009 global economic crisis and (still continuing) stimulating their way (and arguably by secondary effect our way) out of it by consuming huge amounts of steel and concrete https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/business/worldbusiness/15iht-g7.4.20200268.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/business/worldbusiness/15... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_stimulus_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_stimulus_prog... http://www.globalcement.com/magazine/articles/1054-global-cement-top-100-report-2017-2018 http://www.globalcement.com/magazine/articles/1054-global-ce... https://www.caixinglobal.com/2017-10-17/slowing-china-steel-consumption-stymies-global-demand-growth-101157487.html https://www.caixinglobal.com/2017-10-17/slowing-china-steel-... https://www.rfa.org/english/commentaries/energy_watch/chinas-economic-stimulus-spurs-climate-costs-01072019105749.html https://www.rfa.org/english/commentaries/energy_watch/chinas... [edit] formatting