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Does anyone know a resource which explains the theoretical limit for retrievable, durable, information storage? I would assume the most dense medium possible w

Does anyone know a resource which explains the theoretical limit for retrievable, durable, information storage? I would assume the most dense medium possible would be a collection of neutrons, since neutron stars are the most dense object other than a black hole, but retrieving information from them doesn’t seem feasible.

bookofjoe 7y ago
"'Dragon's Egg' is a 1980 hard science fiction novel by Robert L. Forward. In the story, Dragon's Egg is a neutron star with a surface gravity 67 billion times that of Earth, and inhabited by cheela, intelligent creatures the size of a sesame seed who live, think, and develop a million times faster than humans. Most of the novel, from May to June 2050, chronicles the cheela civilization beginning with its discovery of agriculture to advanced technology and its first face-to-face contact with humans, who are observing the hyper-rapid evolution of the cheela civilization from orbit around Dragon's Egg. "The novel is regarded as a landmark in hard science fiction. As is typical of the genre, 'Dragon's Egg' attempts to communicate unfamiliar ideas and imaginative scenes while giving adequate attention to the known scientific principles involved." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Egg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Egg Superb.
- aerique 7y ago
  This is one of the few science-fiction books that I still think back on. Good, fun story and hard scifi.
- Dangeranger 7y ago
  Thank you. This sounds like a book I need to read.
- bookofjoe 7y ago
  "Dragon's Egg" pdf: http://investigacion.izt.uam.mx/alva/DragonsEgg.pdf http://investigacion.izt.uam.mx/alva/DragonsEgg.pdf
- dotancohen 7y ago
  I absolutely loved this book. However, isn't it curious that the humans arrive just as the cheela are reaching the level of technology needed to communicate? In terms of human time, they could have come a year earlier, or a year later.
  - slm_HN 7y ago
    As I remember the book it was the humans probing the neutron star with something (x-rays?) in order to survey/study the star that triggered the evolutionary advances in the cheela. So no, it wasn't curious timing, the humans precipitated the rise of the cheela. Great book btw, hope I'm remembering it correctly.
throw0101a 7y ago
> Does anyone know a resource which explains the theoretical limit for retrievable, durable, information storage? From an old ZFS weblog post on why they chose 128 bits for their data structures: > Although we'd all like Moore's Law to continue forever, quantum mechanics imposes some fundamental limits on the computation rate and information capacity of any physical device. In particular, it has been shown that 1 kilogram of matter confined to 1 liter of space can perform at most 10^51 operations per second on at most 10^31 bits of information [see Seth Lloyd, "Ultimate physical limits to computation." Nature 406, 1047-1054 (2000)]. A fully-populated 128-bit storage pool would contain 2^128 blocks = 2^137 bytes = 2^140 bits; therefore the minimum mass required to hold the bits would be (2^140 bits) / (10^31 bits/kg) = 136 billion kg. * https://blogs.oracle.com/bonwick/128-bit-storage:-are-you-high https://blogs.oracle.com/bonwick/128-bit-storage:-are-you-hi...

bookofjoe 7y ago

"'Dragon's Egg' is a 1980 hard science fiction novel by Robert L. Forward. In the story, Dragon's Egg is a neutron star with a surface gravity 67 billion times that of Earth, and inhabited by cheela, intelligent creatures the size of a sesame seed who live, think, and develop a million times faster than humans. Most of the novel, from May to June 2050, chronicles the cheela civilization beginning with its discovery of agriculture to advanced technology and its first face-to-face contact with humans, who are observing the hyper-rapid evolution of the cheela civilization from orbit around Dragon's Egg. "The novel is regarded as a landmark in hard science fiction. As is typical of the genre, 'Dragon's Egg' attempts to communicate unfamiliar ideas and imaginative scenes while giving adequate attention to the known scientific principles involved." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Egg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon%27s_Egg Superb.

aerique 7y ago
This is one of the few science-fiction books that I still think back on. Good, fun story and hard scifi.
Dangeranger 7y ago
Thank you. This sounds like a book I need to read.
bookofjoe 7y ago
"Dragon's Egg" pdf: http://investigacion.izt.uam.mx/alva/DragonsEgg.pdf http://investigacion.izt.uam.mx/alva/DragonsEgg.pdf
dotancohen 7y ago
I absolutely loved this book. However, isn't it curious that the humans arrive just as the cheela are reaching the level of technology needed to communicate? In terms of human time, they could have come a year earlier, or a year later.
- slm_HN 7y ago
  As I remember the book it was the humans probing the neutron star with something (x-rays?) in order to survey/study the star that triggered the evolutionary advances in the cheela. So no, it wasn't curious timing, the humans precipitated the rise of the cheela. Great book btw, hope I'm remembering it correctly.

throw0101a 7y ago

> Does anyone know a resource which explains the theoretical limit for retrievable, durable, information storage? From an old ZFS weblog post on why they chose 128 bits for their data structures: > Although we'd all like Moore's Law to continue forever, quantum mechanics imposes some fundamental limits on the computation rate and information capacity of any physical device. In particular, it has been shown that 1 kilogram of matter confined to 1 liter of space can perform at most 10^51 operations per second on at most 10^31 bits of information [see Seth Lloyd, "Ultimate physical limits to computation." Nature 406, 1047-1054 (2000)]. A fully-populated 128-bit storage pool would contain 2^128 blocks = 2^137 bytes = 2^140 bits; therefore the minimum mass required to hold the bits would be (2^140 bits) / (10^31 bits/kg) = 136 billion kg. * https://blogs.oracle.com/bonwick/128-bit-storage:-are-you-high https://blogs.oracle.com/bonwick/128-bit-storage:-are-you-hi...