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The point I was making is that none of those things are very interesting to me – I use a credit card when travelling, don't travel enough for banking to be a co

The point I was making is that none of those things are very interesting to me – I use a credit card when travelling, don't travel enough for banking to be a constraint, and don't need virtual cards. Also, note that there are already zero ATM fees in the UK, Monzo does £200 of fee-free foreign withdrawals/month in line with the Revolut free account, and cashback is only 1% outside of Europe, if you are paying for the most expensive account. This is kind of what I mean – the offering seems to suffer from the same problems as older banks, in that it kinda looks good on the surface but mostly comes with a bunch of stuff I have zero interest in.

krn 7y ago
> Also, note that there are already zero ATM fees in the UK That makes a big difference, and it's not the case in continental Europe. Monzo then seems to be optimized for a single market and a single type of user (who doesn't travel much). I totally understand your case now. > and don't need virtual cards Are you using the same physical debit / credit card for all online payments? I don't see how disposable virtual cards is not the best solution for private and secure online transactions at the moment.
- nothrabannosir 7y ago
  I have visited quite a few countries in Europe, but never found one where ATM fees are de rigueur. Actually in all my travels ever in the entire world, it was only the USA where I really couldn’t find a fee-free ATM no matter how hard I looked. Ironically, the only European country where I ever even see some ATMs with fees, at all, is the UK. Monzo has no surcharge over the network fee for foreign currency transactions, so it’s quite good. However, it’s a debit card, and credit cards still win for reliability when renting cars or buying airplane tickets. When it comes to virtual cards: it’s a matter of taste. Personally I don’t care a single iota if my card gets defrauded; issue a chargeback, get a new one, done. Not worth giving up for the convenience of auto fill of C.C. in the browser.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - krn 7y ago
    > I have visited quite a few countries in Europe, but never found one where ATM fees are de rigueur. At least in my EU country, every bank charges 2% (min. 2.9€) for using any local or foreign ATM that doesn't belong to its own network. With Monzo, taking out 1000€ from any ATM in continental Europe costs 30€. With Revolut it's 20€. The difference alone buys one a Premium subscription at Revolut.
- matthewmacleod 7y ago
  Yes; Monzo is probably optimised for UK consumers who don't travel much – which is the vast majority of the UK market. I don't have any real use-case for virtual cards, since both card provider and service provider still get to track everything. It's possible that it might be valuable to limit the amount that can be charged by a provider, or to allow a virtual card to be independently disabled in case of fraud, but I'm not particularly concerned about those given the ease of reclaiming funds generally.
mantap 7y ago
Not everybody wants a credit card, or is able to have one. Revolut et al provide many of the features of a credit card without having to borrow money and pay it back.
namdnay 7y ago
Don’t you get hit by international fees when using your credit card abroad? As a regular business traveler living in europe, Revolut has saved me a fortune (I even turn a small profit with the Metal cashback)
- grey-area 7y ago
  Don’t you get hit by international fees when using your credit card abroad? No. There are fees for withdrawing cash over £200, but not using the card abroad.
  - nothrabannosir 7y ago
    Grand parent said they use a “credit card” abroad, implying they don’t use Monzo, or wouldn’t need Revolut. Monzo is a debit card.
    - grey-area 7y ago
      Ah thanks, sorry I missed that. If you don't mind using a debit card abroad though, Monzo gives you a good rate, not sure why you'd need to use a credit card.
- matthewmacleod 7y ago
  No; there are a good selection of credit cards available with no foreign transaction fees. I have a Barclaycard that has no fees, higher cash back than Revolut, and has no monthly fee.

krn 7y ago

> Also, note that there are already zero ATM fees in the UK That makes a big difference, and it's not the case in continental Europe. Monzo then seems to be optimized for a single market and a single type of user (who doesn't travel much). I totally understand your case now. > and don't need virtual cards Are you using the same physical debit / credit card for all online payments? I don't see how disposable virtual cards is not the best solution for private and secure online transactions at the moment.

nothrabannosir 7y ago
I have visited quite a few countries in Europe, but never found one where ATM fees are de rigueur. Actually in all my travels ever in the entire world, it was only the USA where I really couldn’t find a fee-free ATM no matter how hard I looked. Ironically, the only European country where I ever even see some ATMs with fees, at all, is the UK. Monzo has no surcharge over the network fee for foreign currency transactions, so it’s quite good. However, it’s a debit card, and credit cards still win for reliability when renting cars or buying airplane tickets. When it comes to virtual cards: it’s a matter of taste. Personally I don’t care a single iota if my card gets defrauded; issue a chargeback, get a new one, done. Not worth giving up for the convenience of auto fill of C.C. in the browser.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- krn 7y ago
  > I have visited quite a few countries in Europe, but never found one where ATM fees are de rigueur. At least in my EU country, every bank charges 2% (min. 2.9€) for using any local or foreign ATM that doesn't belong to its own network. With Monzo, taking out 1000€ from any ATM in continental Europe costs 30€. With Revolut it's 20€. The difference alone buys one a Premium subscription at Revolut.
matthewmacleod 7y ago
Yes; Monzo is probably optimised for UK consumers who don't travel much – which is the vast majority of the UK market. I don't have any real use-case for virtual cards, since both card provider and service provider still get to track everything. It's possible that it might be valuable to limit the amount that can be charged by a provider, or to allow a virtual card to be independently disabled in case of fraud, but I'm not particularly concerned about those given the ease of reclaiming funds generally.

mantap 7y ago

Not everybody wants a credit card, or is able to have one. Revolut et al provide many of the features of a credit card without having to borrow money and pay it back.

namdnay 7y ago

Don’t you get hit by international fees when using your credit card abroad? As a regular business traveler living in europe, Revolut has saved me a fortune (I even turn a small profit with the Metal cashback)

grey-area 7y ago
Don’t you get hit by international fees when using your credit card abroad? No. There are fees for withdrawing cash over £200, but not using the card abroad.
- nothrabannosir 7y ago
  Grand parent said they use a “credit card” abroad, implying they don’t use Monzo, or wouldn’t need Revolut. Monzo is a debit card.
  - grey-area 7y ago
    Ah thanks, sorry I missed that. If you don't mind using a debit card abroad though, Monzo gives you a good rate, not sure why you'd need to use a credit card.
matthewmacleod 7y ago
No; there are a good selection of credit cards available with no foreign transaction fees. I have a Barclaycard that has no fees, higher cash back than Revolut, and has no monthly fee.