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I wish Monzo was available in continental Europe as an alternative to Revolut before expanding to the US. As a product, I find Revolut to be much better though

by krn 7y ago

I wish Monzo was available in continental Europe as an alternative to Revolut before expanding to the US. As a product, I find Revolut to be much better thought-out offering for both, private customers[1] and businesses[2], but as a company I trust Monzo a way more. [1] https://www.revolut.com/our-pricing-plans https://www.revolut.com/our-pricing-plans [2] https://www.revolut.com/business-accounts-made-easy https://www.revolut.com/business-accounts-made-easy

yRetsyM 7y ago
Another victim of Brexit uncertainty, as I understand it - because of uncertainty of best approach post Brexit they paused continental Europe plans.
- krn 7y ago
  They could have just got a banking license in Ireland. I believe they still need to apply for one in the US. At least in terms of the population, the EU market is 60% larger than the US, and Europeans are already used to paying for everything with debit cards. Also, in many EU countries people rarely do chargebacks or expect them to succeed, which makes supporting them much easier.
  - wastedhours 7y ago
    > the EU market is 60% larger than the US, and Europeans are already used to paying for everything with debit cards. I'd argue the other side and say the EU isn't a single market when it comes to payment and banking culture. I'd also argue that there are large swathes of Europe that still don't have a card culture. My personal anecdata on chargebacks corroborates yours, but my own assumption is that the market for a fintech company is much larger in the States than in continental Europe.
    - Jhsto 7y ago
      I've needed cash more often in San Francisco than I've needed anywhere in Europe in the last 5 years. To my experience, even the smallest shops in most of Europe accept contactless payments, whereas in the States the smaller ones did not accept card payments for purchases under 2 (or sometimes even 20) dollars. I'd agree that the market for a fintech company in the States is much larger, but this is solely because its current state is so bad.
      - martinald 7y ago
        Depends where you are. UK/France/Spain, yes, Germany absolutely not. Even mid range restaurants are 50/50 if they'll take card. Not really sure what you are meant to do if they don't take card and you are settling a large table which costs more than your daily ATM limit...
        wastedhours 7y ago
        Yep, similar experience in Germany, and more than 50/50 if you travel further east in Europe (and that's not even counting those who look actively pissed off if you want to pay by card even if they have the facilities to take it[0]). [0] this is a bigger thing than you'd expect and goes back to my point on culture - unless you want to feel like a tourist standing out, there's plenty of places in Europe still where cash is very definitely implied to be preferred. And don't even try if you're not in a major metro area.
Dayshine 7y ago
They don't have FCSC protection, how is that a better thought-out offering for private customers? "We can just throw away your money and you have no recourse, trust us with your ~banking~ beyond banking"
- krn 7y ago
  > They don't have FCSC protection, how is that a better thought-out offering for private customers? Revolut started out as a "prepaid debit card for paying abroad", not as "your main bank acccount", but is closing the gap quickly and should soon switch over its customers to an EU-licensed bank entity. I find Revolut to be better than Monzo in terms of features and costs, but it's not suitable to be used as the main bank account yet because of the lack of protection.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
matthewmacleod 7y ago
Aside from the obvious horror stories circulating about customer service and culture, I don't see Revolut's offering as more compelling at all. They seem to offer all that stuff that I don't want from a retail banking service – "instant access to 5 cryptocurrencies" or "overseas medical insurance" or "LoungeKey Pass access" are just distracting noise. Each to their own of course, but the thing that really attracted me to Monzo was the simplicity. I'm already nervous about the introduction of the "plus" offering.
- krn 7y ago
  Revolut offers lower ATM fees, lower foreign exchange fees, disposable virtual cards for online payments, and up to 1% cashback on all card payments.
  - slavoingilizov 7y ago
    Only for their Metal subscription, which is paid, not free. Irrelevant comparison. https://www.revolut.com/introducing-revolut-metal https://www.revolut.com/introducing-revolut-metal
    - krn 7y ago
      > Only for their Metal subscription False. Monzo's ATM fee is 3%, Revolut's 2%. Monzo gives MasterCard's exchange rate, Revolut gives real exchange rate. If you take out at least 600 EUR / GBP monthly, the Revolut Metal subscription with all the benefits becomes essentially free.
  - matthewmacleod 7y ago
    The point I was making is that none of those things are very interesting to me – I use a credit card when travelling, don't travel enough for banking to be a constraint, and don't need virtual cards. Also, note that there are already zero ATM fees in the UK, Monzo does £200 of fee-free foreign withdrawals/month in line with the Revolut free account, and cashback is only 1% outside of Europe, if you are paying for the most expensive account. This is kind of what I mean – the offering seems to suffer from the same problems as older banks, in that it kinda looks good on the surface but mostly comes with a bunch of stuff I have zero interest in.
secfirstmd 7y ago
Why not try n26?
- bildung 7y ago
  I wouldn't trust N26 (or any of these other move fast and break things banking apps), they have shown that they have zero clues about securing their infrastructure: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money
coconut85 7y ago
Why not Bunq? It's smaller but good. Bunq also has an impressively good API. Way more things to do than with Monzo or Revolut.
- krn 7y ago
  > Why not Bunq? I find Bunq to be pretty unique. The entire product seems to be design by a hacker who loves to think in numbers: "3 beautiful cards of your choice", "25 bunq bank accounts", "10 ATM cash withdrawals per month". Everything is simple and clear, but also a bit overwhelming. I think it's #1 European challenger bank for technically-minded people with no-nonsense attitude, but other mobile-first banks seem to require a bit less mental overhead and are more intuitive to use for an average person.
  - coconut85 7y ago
    Lol, true. My girlfriend thought it was "too smart" at first. But now she loves it.

by krn 7y ago

yRetsyM 7y ago

Another victim of Brexit uncertainty, as I understand it - because of uncertainty of best approach post Brexit they paused continental Europe plans.

krn 7y ago
They could have just got a banking license in Ireland. I believe they still need to apply for one in the US. At least in terms of the population, the EU market is 60% larger than the US, and Europeans are already used to paying for everything with debit cards. Also, in many EU countries people rarely do chargebacks or expect them to succeed, which makes supporting them much easier.
- wastedhours 7y ago
  > the EU market is 60% larger than the US, and Europeans are already used to paying for everything with debit cards. I'd argue the other side and say the EU isn't a single market when it comes to payment and banking culture. I'd also argue that there are large swathes of Europe that still don't have a card culture. My personal anecdata on chargebacks corroborates yours, but my own assumption is that the market for a fintech company is much larger in the States than in continental Europe.
  - Jhsto 7y ago
    I've needed cash more often in San Francisco than I've needed anywhere in Europe in the last 5 years. To my experience, even the smallest shops in most of Europe accept contactless payments, whereas in the States the smaller ones did not accept card payments for purchases under 2 (or sometimes even 20) dollars. I'd agree that the market for a fintech company in the States is much larger, but this is solely because its current state is so bad.
    - martinald 7y ago
      Depends where you are. UK/France/Spain, yes, Germany absolutely not. Even mid range restaurants are 50/50 if they'll take card. Not really sure what you are meant to do if they don't take card and you are settling a large table which costs more than your daily ATM limit...
      - wastedhours 7y ago
        Yep, similar experience in Germany, and more than 50/50 if you travel further east in Europe (and that's not even counting those who look actively pissed off if you want to pay by card even if they have the facilities to take it[0]). [0] this is a bigger thing than you'd expect and goes back to my point on culture - unless you want to feel like a tourist standing out, there's plenty of places in Europe still where cash is very definitely implied to be preferred. And don't even try if you're not in a major metro area.

Dayshine 7y ago

They don't have FCSC protection, how is that a better thought-out offering for private customers? "We can just throw away your money and you have no recourse, trust us with your ~banking~ beyond banking"

krn 7y ago
> They don't have FCSC protection, how is that a better thought-out offering for private customers? Revolut started out as a "prepaid debit card for paying abroad", not as "your main bank acccount", but is closing the gap quickly and should soon switch over its customers to an EU-licensed bank entity. I find Revolut to be better than Monzo in terms of features and costs, but it's not suitable to be used as the main bank account yet because of the lack of protection.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

matthewmacleod 7y ago

Aside from the obvious horror stories circulating about customer service and culture, I don't see Revolut's offering as more compelling at all. They seem to offer all that stuff that I don't want from a retail banking service – "instant access to 5 cryptocurrencies" or "overseas medical insurance" or "LoungeKey Pass access" are just distracting noise. Each to their own of course, but the thing that really attracted me to Monzo was the simplicity. I'm already nervous about the introduction of the "plus" offering.

krn 7y ago
Revolut offers lower ATM fees, lower foreign exchange fees, disposable virtual cards for online payments, and up to 1% cashback on all card payments.
- slavoingilizov 7y ago
  Only for their Metal subscription, which is paid, not free. Irrelevant comparison. https://www.revolut.com/introducing-revolut-metal https://www.revolut.com/introducing-revolut-metal
  - krn 7y ago
    > Only for their Metal subscription False. Monzo's ATM fee is 3%, Revolut's 2%. Monzo gives MasterCard's exchange rate, Revolut gives real exchange rate. If you take out at least 600 EUR / GBP monthly, the Revolut Metal subscription with all the benefits becomes essentially free.
- matthewmacleod 7y ago
  The point I was making is that none of those things are very interesting to me – I use a credit card when travelling, don't travel enough for banking to be a constraint, and don't need virtual cards. Also, note that there are already zero ATM fees in the UK, Monzo does £200 of fee-free foreign withdrawals/month in line with the Revolut free account, and cashback is only 1% outside of Europe, if you are paying for the most expensive account. This is kind of what I mean – the offering seems to suffer from the same problems as older banks, in that it kinda looks good on the surface but mostly comes with a bunch of stuff I have zero interest in.

secfirstmd 7y ago

Why not try n26?

bildung 7y ago
I wouldn't trust N26 (or any of these other move fast and break things banking apps), they have shown that they have zero clues about securing their infrastructure: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-7969-shut_up_and_take_my_money

coconut85 7y ago

Why not Bunq? It's smaller but good. Bunq also has an impressively good API. Way more things to do than with Monzo or Revolut.

krn 7y ago
> Why not Bunq? I find Bunq to be pretty unique. The entire product seems to be design by a hacker who loves to think in numbers: "3 beautiful cards of your choice", "25 bunq bank accounts", "10 ATM cash withdrawals per month". Everything is simple and clear, but also a bit overwhelming. I think it's #1 European challenger bank for technically-minded people with no-nonsense attitude, but other mobile-first banks seem to require a bit less mental overhead and are more intuitive to use for an average person.
- coconut85 7y ago
  Lol, true. My girlfriend thought it was "too smart" at first. But now she loves it.