8 ms·

Lightyear unveils the first long-range solar car on June 25

37 points by SanderMak 7y ago

kuu 7y ago
This seems a little contradiction, I don't understand it: The 4-wheel drive car is designed to go for long periods without cable charging. The battery alone has a range of 600-800 kilometers, depending on the usage. When it does need to be charged, the model’s energy efficiency makes it charge two or three times faster than any other electric car on the market. This means drivers can charge up to 400km overnight with an ordinary power socket "without cable charging" but "can charge up to 400km with an ordinary power socket" :\
- taneq 7y ago
  From your own quote: > The 4-wheel drive car is designed to go for long periods without cable charging. It can do both.
- vageli 7y ago
  > This seems a little contradiction, I don't understand it: > The 4-wheel drive car is designed to go for long periods without cable charging. It is the long periods that are without cable charging, not that cable charging is not needed to drive long periods.
King-Aaron 7y ago
I'm honestly surprised Tesla etc aren't already doing this. I also feel that what we've seen with Tesla's struggles to bring cars to market, Lightyear would be better off partnering with an existing company rather than trying to launch their own vehicle.
- clouddrover 7y ago
  Another solar car, still a couple of years away from production: https://sonomotors.com/en/sion/ https://sonomotors.com/en/sion/ An interview and demo of the Sono Sion on Fully Charged: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZKdkgB85k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZKdkgB85k Fully Charged also has an interview and a ride along in the Lightyear One: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSbWwn_YCr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSbWwn_YCr8
  - LoSboccacc 7y ago
    > 250km on a 35kWh battery > up to 34 kilometers of additional range per day so 4.75kwh from solar panel in 8 hours 600 watt solar panel average power 4m^2 solar panels give or take back of the envelope calculation checks out, this would be a great commuter car.
  - King-Aaron 7y ago
    All I care about from that first link is the moss in the dashboard. That's incredibly cool.
- whamlastxmas 7y ago
  This car is $150k. I think the benefit is negligible, especially for the cost. Tesla is right to focus on lower prices and wide appeal.
  - taneq 7y ago
    So it's the kind of car you buy for your private island where you want a vehicle that can sit around indefinitely with occasional use and not require any maintenance, and where cost is no object.
    - King-Aaron 7y ago
      No, for that you buy a 1988 Toyota Hilux
manigandham 7y ago
Hasn't the math already been done? There's just not enough sunlight exposure to get anywhere near the power requirements for a mid-sized vehicle. You end up with tiny boxes on wheels covered in very expensive and fragile panels that only work in perfectly bright and sunny days. Impacts, accidents, maintenance, and manufacturing externalities are all against this approach.
- walrus01 7y ago
  Yes, and even if you were to cover something with the surface area of a Tesla model S in triple junction GaAs pv cells, and park it in direct sun all day, you might collect a cumulative 25kWh of charge in a whole month. Basically the same as 25% of a single charge of the car. If you want to have a pv powered electric car, install twenty 370W panels (72 x 156mm high efficiency monocrystallin silicon each) on your roof and feed the local grid utility. Solar powered cars such as you see racing across Australia are special ultra lightweight research projects, stripped down to the bare minimum, and with motors/gearing that results in a time of something like 30 seconds for 0 to 100km/h. If you want to do the rough math on an absolute perfect case for kWh per month, go to the NREL pvwatts tool online, plug in the numbers for a theoretical 1000W pv array (same as 4 x 250W panels) at your location. Look at the cumulative kWh production estimate per month. This would assume that the car spends 100% of its time outdoors in the sunlight.
  - Retric 7y ago
    That math is very wrong. A model 3 sized car is ~2m x 5m and has room for side panels. At 20% efficiency that’s ~2kw in direct sunlight. Ignore panel cost and 40+% efficiency is possible for ~4kW in sunlight. Now at highway speeds that only adds up to edit: ~8 to 17% increased range which is hardly worth the expense. Exactly, how much of a car you can cover in panels and how much time it sits in shade or garage makes this less appealing. But, getting ~50 miles of useful range per day at reasonable cost in ideal conditions is very possible.
    - walrus01 7y ago
      I think you will find that if you put the effective non-glass surface area of a model 3 in direct sunlight... Half of the car will be in shade. Half of the car will be angled at a less than optimal angle (such as 35 degree fixed tilt, aimed directly south, for a ground mounted PV install). I would be extremely surprised if a model 3 or S covered in PV cells produced anywhere near 2000W in direct sunlight. My best estimate is that it's a really charitable back of the napkin figure to say that a model S sized vehicle with every square cm available of body panel covered in PV cells might be equivalent to four 250W panels. The math is, roughly, and this is output from 30 seconds with the pvwatts tool. This is for a fixed ground mount or roof mount array of 4 x 250W panels, tilted at 20 degrees aimed directly south. Not on a car. Worst month of the year, december: 97kWh produced Best month of the year, july, 165 kWh produced. Screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/OcK8z2b https://imgur.com/a/OcK8z2b Keep in mind, that production estimate is for four panels that have unobstructed view to the sky 24x7 for a month, and begin receiving sunlight as soon as the sun comes up in the morning, and keep receiving it every minute of the day until the sun sets. Every day for a month. Not how you would see a car used. Probably a lot less than that, since any high efficiency PV cells are not curved, and if you're talking about surfaces that are curved in more than one axis, that entirely rules out using big 156mm monocrystalline Si cells. And there's no way in hell that anyone can afford to be using 33% efficient space grade GaAs PV cells on a car. Ignore the panel cost? Have you ever actually priced gallium arsenide triple junction PV cells? If you have actually installed and put into use an off grid PV system and watched its output through a whole solar day, you would understand.
jimbob365 7y ago
I can imagine solar panels being helpful if your car is parked in the sun during the day, allowing you to commute using the charge from that, but I struggle to see how this would help maximise the range. Wouldn't the 12km/h charging be inconsequential to a long car journey?
- consp 7y ago
  Yes, but this is probably meant for daily commute in which case (in the Netherlands at least, where this company is based) the commute usually is about 30-40km which makes it doable. If you look at it: if they can deliver about 3-4kW of power (quite high, I guess they wont get there any time soon) you can manage to do all the things a normal car (gas) would do with the accessory belt (usually about 6hp max). So power the AC/Stereo/screens/windows/lights etc. It's not a lot but you get some extra miles from your charge which is always nice.
- 8draco8 7y ago
  It depends on the situation. If the car will be parked outside then charging 12km/h is very nice. During 8h at work that's 96km charged, that's enough for a daily commute and some shopping.
- close04 7y ago
  I would see the value for something in keeping the A/C going at a reasonable power without tapping the battery when you have to leave the car out in the sun. Also if you commute and can get a "free" recharge every sunny day. Assuming you take a long trip where you average 80Km/h you still get over 100Km of extra range which is not bad.
- andygates 7y ago
  My (UK) commute is 10 miles each way, so 3 hours of daylight would keep it topped up. And I have to park outside. It would be _perfect_ for my use case. If their numbers add up this could be a game-changer.
- vbuwivbiu 7y ago
  Wouldn't it be more efficient to charge cars from electricity gathered from solar urban roofs ? Car parks would make ideal areas to cover with solar roofs in the style of gas-station roofs. They'd be generating electricity and keeping the cars beneath cool
huhtenberg 7y ago
> The page isn’t redirecting properly
- swebs 7y ago
  http://archive.is/93QX3 http://archive.is/93QX3
  - huhtenberg 7y ago
    > Unable to connect It's just not my day, I guess :)
- rdm_blackhole 7y ago
  I am getting the same issue.
mapcars 7y ago
"from €149.000" sounds a bit too much
Tepix 7y ago
I've ordered the Sono Sion¹ electric car. It has solar cells (1200W max) that will charge the car during the day adding - on average - 10km range per day (34km max in the summer). I only drive a few kilometers per week. If everything goes well I won't have to charge the car for months. The Sion has a rather small battery so its range is only 250km or so. Enough for me, but that's something that a significant number of people are not yet comfortable with. -- ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sono_Motors_Sion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sono_Motors_Sion
- barney54 7y ago
  Thank you for this comment because it puts one of the solar cars (at least the Sono Sion) in context--10 km range per day. It's a great option if that that work for you!
- kozak 7y ago
  The Wikipedia article says: "By the use of older – and thus no longer legally protected – components of traditional car manufacturers this low price compared to other electric cars is possible". Can anyone shed some light on this?
  - ehnto 7y ago
    Maybe they mean they are using old designs no longer protected by patents?
  - icebraining 7y ago
    The linked article says: "The Sion developers have deliberately combined several older - and thus no longer patented - components of traditional automakers in the car."
- sokoloff 7y ago
  > I only drive a few kilometers per week. Is it even worth owning a car to only drive a few kilometers per week, which seems to imply under 200 miles per year? The fixed costs would seem terribly onerous on a per-km basis.
ianbooker 7y ago
A friend of mine owned an Audi from 2003 that had a solar-covered sun roof feeding into the AC. On sunny days it would at least exchange enough air while parking so turning on the AC for small trips was not necessary. Just brilliant!
Digit-Al 7y ago
Sounds like Lightyear are trying to create some "Buzz". (Sorry)
cagenut 7y ago
Fully Charged just released a full 20 minute video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSbWwn_YCr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSbWwn_YCr8

37 points by SanderMak 7y ago

kuu 7y ago

This seems a little contradiction, I don't understand it: The 4-wheel drive car is designed to go for long periods without cable charging. The battery alone has a range of 600-800 kilometers, depending on the usage. When it does need to be charged, the model’s energy efficiency makes it charge two or three times faster than any other electric car on the market. This means drivers can charge up to 400km overnight with an ordinary power socket "without cable charging" but "can charge up to 400km with an ordinary power socket" :\

taneq 7y ago
From your own quote: > The 4-wheel drive car is designed to go for long periods without cable charging. It can do both.
vageli 7y ago
> This seems a little contradiction, I don't understand it: > The 4-wheel drive car is designed to go for long periods without cable charging. It is the long periods that are without cable charging, not that cable charging is not needed to drive long periods.

King-Aaron 7y ago

I'm honestly surprised Tesla etc aren't already doing this. I also feel that what we've seen with Tesla's struggles to bring cars to market, Lightyear would be better off partnering with an existing company rather than trying to launch their own vehicle.

clouddrover 7y ago
Another solar car, still a couple of years away from production: https://sonomotors.com/en/sion/ https://sonomotors.com/en/sion/ An interview and demo of the Sono Sion on Fully Charged: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZKdkgB85k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZKdkgB85k Fully Charged also has an interview and a ride along in the Lightyear One: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSbWwn_YCr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSbWwn_YCr8
- LoSboccacc 7y ago
  > 250km on a 35kWh battery > up to 34 kilometers of additional range per day so 4.75kwh from solar panel in 8 hours 600 watt solar panel average power 4m^2 solar panels give or take back of the envelope calculation checks out, this would be a great commuter car.
- King-Aaron 7y ago
  All I care about from that first link is the moss in the dashboard. That's incredibly cool.
whamlastxmas 7y ago
This car is $150k. I think the benefit is negligible, especially for the cost. Tesla is right to focus on lower prices and wide appeal.
- taneq 7y ago
  So it's the kind of car you buy for your private island where you want a vehicle that can sit around indefinitely with occasional use and not require any maintenance, and where cost is no object.
  - King-Aaron 7y ago
    No, for that you buy a 1988 Toyota Hilux

manigandham 7y ago

Hasn't the math already been done? There's just not enough sunlight exposure to get anywhere near the power requirements for a mid-sized vehicle. You end up with tiny boxes on wheels covered in very expensive and fragile panels that only work in perfectly bright and sunny days. Impacts, accidents, maintenance, and manufacturing externalities are all against this approach.

walrus01 7y ago
Yes, and even if you were to cover something with the surface area of a Tesla model S in triple junction GaAs pv cells, and park it in direct sun all day, you might collect a cumulative 25kWh of charge in a whole month. Basically the same as 25% of a single charge of the car. If you want to have a pv powered electric car, install twenty 370W panels (72 x 156mm high efficiency monocrystallin silicon each) on your roof and feed the local grid utility. Solar powered cars such as you see racing across Australia are special ultra lightweight research projects, stripped down to the bare minimum, and with motors/gearing that results in a time of something like 30 seconds for 0 to 100km/h. If you want to do the rough math on an absolute perfect case for kWh per month, go to the NREL pvwatts tool online, plug in the numbers for a theoretical 1000W pv array (same as 4 x 250W panels) at your location. Look at the cumulative kWh production estimate per month. This would assume that the car spends 100% of its time outdoors in the sunlight.
- Retric 7y ago
  That math is very wrong. A model 3 sized car is ~2m x 5m and has room for side panels. At 20% efficiency that’s ~2kw in direct sunlight. Ignore panel cost and 40+% efficiency is possible for ~4kW in sunlight. Now at highway speeds that only adds up to edit: ~8 to 17% increased range which is hardly worth the expense. Exactly, how much of a car you can cover in panels and how much time it sits in shade or garage makes this less appealing. But, getting ~50 miles of useful range per day at reasonable cost in ideal conditions is very possible.
  - walrus01 7y ago
    I think you will find that if you put the effective non-glass surface area of a model 3 in direct sunlight... Half of the car will be in shade. Half of the car will be angled at a less than optimal angle (such as 35 degree fixed tilt, aimed directly south, for a ground mounted PV install). I would be extremely surprised if a model 3 or S covered in PV cells produced anywhere near 2000W in direct sunlight. My best estimate is that it's a really charitable back of the napkin figure to say that a model S sized vehicle with every square cm available of body panel covered in PV cells might be equivalent to four 250W panels. The math is, roughly, and this is output from 30 seconds with the pvwatts tool. This is for a fixed ground mount or roof mount array of 4 x 250W panels, tilted at 20 degrees aimed directly south. Not on a car. Worst month of the year, december: 97kWh produced Best month of the year, july, 165 kWh produced. Screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/OcK8z2b https://imgur.com/a/OcK8z2b Keep in mind, that production estimate is for four panels that have unobstructed view to the sky 24x7 for a month, and begin receiving sunlight as soon as the sun comes up in the morning, and keep receiving it every minute of the day until the sun sets. Every day for a month. Not how you would see a car used. Probably a lot less than that, since any high efficiency PV cells are not curved, and if you're talking about surfaces that are curved in more than one axis, that entirely rules out using big 156mm monocrystalline Si cells. And there's no way in hell that anyone can afford to be using 33% efficient space grade GaAs PV cells on a car. Ignore the panel cost? Have you ever actually priced gallium arsenide triple junction PV cells? If you have actually installed and put into use an off grid PV system and watched its output through a whole solar day, you would understand.

jimbob365 7y ago

I can imagine solar panels being helpful if your car is parked in the sun during the day, allowing you to commute using the charge from that, but I struggle to see how this would help maximise the range. Wouldn't the 12km/h charging be inconsequential to a long car journey?

consp 7y ago
Yes, but this is probably meant for daily commute in which case (in the Netherlands at least, where this company is based) the commute usually is about 30-40km which makes it doable. If you look at it: if they can deliver about 3-4kW of power (quite high, I guess they wont get there any time soon) you can manage to do all the things a normal car (gas) would do with the accessory belt (usually about 6hp max). So power the AC/Stereo/screens/windows/lights etc. It's not a lot but you get some extra miles from your charge which is always nice.
8draco8 7y ago
It depends on the situation. If the car will be parked outside then charging 12km/h is very nice. During 8h at work that's 96km charged, that's enough for a daily commute and some shopping.
close04 7y ago
I would see the value for something in keeping the A/C going at a reasonable power without tapping the battery when you have to leave the car out in the sun. Also if you commute and can get a "free" recharge every sunny day. Assuming you take a long trip where you average 80Km/h you still get over 100Km of extra range which is not bad.
andygates 7y ago
My (UK) commute is 10 miles each way, so 3 hours of daylight would keep it topped up. And I have to park outside. It would be _perfect_ for my use case. If their numbers add up this could be a game-changer.
vbuwivbiu 7y ago
Wouldn't it be more efficient to charge cars from electricity gathered from solar urban roofs ? Car parks would make ideal areas to cover with solar roofs in the style of gas-station roofs. They'd be generating electricity and keeping the cars beneath cool

huhtenberg 7y ago

> The page isn’t redirecting properly

swebs 7y ago
http://archive.is/93QX3 http://archive.is/93QX3
- huhtenberg 7y ago
  > Unable to connect It's just not my day, I guess :)
rdm_blackhole 7y ago
I am getting the same issue.

mapcars 7y ago

"from €149.000" sounds a bit too much

Tepix 7y ago

I've ordered the Sono Sion¹ electric car. It has solar cells (1200W max) that will charge the car during the day adding - on average - 10km range per day (34km max in the summer). I only drive a few kilometers per week. If everything goes well I won't have to charge the car for months. The Sion has a rather small battery so its range is only 250km or so. Enough for me, but that's something that a significant number of people are not yet comfortable with. -- ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sono_Motors_Sion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sono_Motors_Sion

barney54 7y ago
Thank you for this comment because it puts one of the solar cars (at least the Sono Sion) in context--10 km range per day. It's a great option if that that work for you!
kozak 7y ago
The Wikipedia article says: "By the use of older – and thus no longer legally protected – components of traditional car manufacturers this low price compared to other electric cars is possible". Can anyone shed some light on this?
- ehnto 7y ago
  Maybe they mean they are using old designs no longer protected by patents?
- icebraining 7y ago
  The linked article says: "The Sion developers have deliberately combined several older - and thus no longer patented - components of traditional automakers in the car."
sokoloff 7y ago
> I only drive a few kilometers per week. Is it even worth owning a car to only drive a few kilometers per week, which seems to imply under 200 miles per year? The fixed costs would seem terribly onerous on a per-km basis.

ianbooker 7y ago

A friend of mine owned an Audi from 2003 that had a solar-covered sun roof feeding into the AC. On sunny days it would at least exchange enough air while parking so turning on the AC for small trips was not necessary. Just brilliant!

Digit-Al 7y ago

Sounds like Lightyear are trying to create some "Buzz". (Sorry)

cagenut 7y ago

Fully Charged just released a full 20 minute video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSbWwn_YCr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSbWwn_YCr8