4 ms·

What are you talking about? EITC, SNAP, Section 8 housing, SSI, TANF, WIC, Medicaid, etc. This site estimates over $700 billion per year spent on these progra

What are you talking about? EITC, SNAP, Section 8 housing, SSI, TANF, WIC, Medicaid, etc. This site estimates over $700 billion per year spent on these programs: http://federalsafetynet.com/safety-net-programs.html http://federalsafetynet.com/safety-net-programs.html

adamnemecek 7y ago
The question is about the quality of life people have when they are on such programs. Also, it's not about how much is spent but how much people actually get. I read somewhere not too long ago that if you divided the amount of money spend on welfare programs by the number of recipients a family of three would be getting $60,000 a year. This is not the case. Welfare administration eats up the difference.
- chibg10 7y ago
  Do you have any numbers to back that last sentence up? I suspect the difference between your figure and intuition is less welfare administration bloat and more that most of it is eaten up by exorbitant healthcare costs through Medicare and Medicaid.
- gwright 7y ago
  I just pointed out that $700 billion isn't nothing. I'm well aware of the myriad of flaws in the existing programs. I certainly wasn't claiming that the $700 billion was being spent wisely but apparently that is what a number of people assumed.
adamsea 7y ago
Not quite the same as knowing you still can have decent health care if you are unemployed.
- gwright 7y ago
  Sure, but I wasn't making any claims about healthcare. I was just stating the obvious that we spent lots of money on a safety net. Ironic that people seem to think that those programs are worthless, but I gather want to arrange for a lot more money to be distributed by the same organization that can't seem to do anything useful with the money it is already distributing. I'm not a fan of the affordable care act, but it seems completely obvious to me that we need to decouple health insurance from employment. I really don't understand why that wasn't a key element of health care reform.
  - pwodhouse 7y ago
    What on Earth are you talking about? Social services are massively underfunded, despite getting a lot of funding, because the need is gigantic. Quite a lot of that funding is just compensating for some of centuries of theft, from slaveowners of the 19th century to predatory rural banks of the 20th Century to coordinated corporate wage depression of the 21st century.
    - gwright 7y ago
      There are real social problems that need solving but framing the situation as the result of "theft" is a mischaracterization. Theft would be an "easy" situation to resolve, just give the money back. In any case, I don't think simply transferring money solves these types of problems -- it is much more difficult than that.
crankylinuxuser 7y ago
Have you ever been on those programs? I have... what few actually accepted me. Unemployment - Screwed around and "lost" the request in the system. I didn't have unemployment, which I am forced to pay into, for 8 weeks. Good thing I was able to get food stamps. I spent most of the time online leeching free internet, since I couldn't afford gas to drive aimlessly to places that would say 'apply online' anyways. EITC - Once a year, during tax season. Not much of a help. SNAP - food stamps. Yes, I was on them back in 2012 when I couldn't get any jobs. It meant that I had food. Section 8 housing - 2 year wait minimum. I put my name on the list, and was summarily told of the homeless shelters. SSI - I tried for disability, because my right arm is permanently injured. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. All over a course of 8 months. TANF - I have no children. Doesn't apply. WIC - Women, infants, children. I'm none of those, and have no children. Medicaid - Tried and was refused. Told to apply to HIP Healthy Indiana Plan. Wanted $$$$. -------------------------------------------- Long story short. In the US, if you aren't independently wealthy, and you lose your job, you're pretty much fucked. You'll lose your residence, cant afford gas for too much transportation, lose needed services to regain a job, your health benefits, and more. The "social net" really isn't, except for the worst of the worst. My wife cares for them as in-home non-medical care. And then, they're on the skin of their teeth, with even a $10/mo raise in a bill causing less food budget. It terrorized many section8 housing people with the earlier shutdown precisely because the fed cuts the check to the state who cuts to the landlord. With no fed money, rents weren't being paid...
- gwright 7y ago
  I just pointed out that $700 billion isn't nothing. I'm well aware of the myriad of flaws in the existing programs. I certainly wasn't claiming that the $700 billion was being spent wisely but apparently that is what a number of people assumed.
  - Retra 7y ago
    A couple of nice ropes aren't a net, not matter how much you spend on them.

adamnemecek 7y ago

The question is about the quality of life people have when they are on such programs. Also, it's not about how much is spent but how much people actually get. I read somewhere not too long ago that if you divided the amount of money spend on welfare programs by the number of recipients a family of three would be getting $60,000 a year. This is not the case. Welfare administration eats up the difference.

chibg10 7y ago
Do you have any numbers to back that last sentence up? I suspect the difference between your figure and intuition is less welfare administration bloat and more that most of it is eaten up by exorbitant healthcare costs through Medicare and Medicaid.
gwright 7y ago
I just pointed out that $700 billion isn't nothing. I'm well aware of the myriad of flaws in the existing programs. I certainly wasn't claiming that the $700 billion was being spent wisely but apparently that is what a number of people assumed.

adamsea 7y ago

Not quite the same as knowing you still can have decent health care if you are unemployed.

gwright 7y ago
Sure, but I wasn't making any claims about healthcare. I was just stating the obvious that we spent lots of money on a safety net. Ironic that people seem to think that those programs are worthless, but I gather want to arrange for a lot more money to be distributed by the same organization that can't seem to do anything useful with the money it is already distributing. I'm not a fan of the affordable care act, but it seems completely obvious to me that we need to decouple health insurance from employment. I really don't understand why that wasn't a key element of health care reform.
- pwodhouse 7y ago
  What on Earth are you talking about? Social services are massively underfunded, despite getting a lot of funding, because the need is gigantic. Quite a lot of that funding is just compensating for some of centuries of theft, from slaveowners of the 19th century to predatory rural banks of the 20th Century to coordinated corporate wage depression of the 21st century.
  - gwright 7y ago
    There are real social problems that need solving but framing the situation as the result of "theft" is a mischaracterization. Theft would be an "easy" situation to resolve, just give the money back. In any case, I don't think simply transferring money solves these types of problems -- it is much more difficult than that.

crankylinuxuser 7y ago

Have you ever been on those programs? I have... what few actually accepted me. Unemployment - Screwed around and "lost" the request in the system. I didn't have unemployment, which I am forced to pay into, for 8 weeks. Good thing I was able to get food stamps. I spent most of the time online leeching free internet, since I couldn't afford gas to drive aimlessly to places that would say 'apply online' anyways. EITC - Once a year, during tax season. Not much of a help. SNAP - food stamps. Yes, I was on them back in 2012 when I couldn't get any jobs. It meant that I had food. Section 8 housing - 2 year wait minimum. I put my name on the list, and was summarily told of the homeless shelters. SSI - I tried for disability, because my right arm is permanently injured. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. All over a course of 8 months. TANF - I have no children. Doesn't apply. WIC - Women, infants, children. I'm none of those, and have no children. Medicaid - Tried and was refused. Told to apply to HIP Healthy Indiana Plan. Wanted $$$$. -------------------------------------------- Long story short. In the US, if you aren't independently wealthy, and you lose your job, you're pretty much fucked. You'll lose your residence, cant afford gas for too much transportation, lose needed services to regain a job, your health benefits, and more. The "social net" really isn't, except for the worst of the worst. My wife cares for them as in-home non-medical care. And then, they're on the skin of their teeth, with even a $10/mo raise in a bill causing less food budget. It terrorized many section8 housing people with the earlier shutdown precisely because the fed cuts the check to the state who cuts to the landlord. With no fed money, rents weren't being paid...

gwright 7y ago
I just pointed out that $700 billion isn't nothing. I'm well aware of the myriad of flaws in the existing programs. I certainly wasn't claiming that the $700 billion was being spent wisely but apparently that is what a number of people assumed.
- Retra 7y ago
  A couple of nice ropes aren't a net, not matter how much you spend on them.