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I do love that the CEO of Cloudflare is throwing technical shade at Verizon and others here and on Twitter for being useless.

bogomipz 7y ago
Do you really think that "throwing shade" is what the internet needs? Is "throwing shade" an admirable quality in someone who is supposed to be demonstrating leadership? Anyone who has worked as a network engineer for a major ISP knows the internet is quite brittle. During my entire time in that profession I can't remember a time when attempting to shame people was used to resolve a routing issue or to improve relations in order to resolve future routing issues.
- FussyZeus 7y ago
  Shame is one of the most effective tools in influencing human behavior, and from the sounds of this post and the other coverage on the incident, Verizon has earned far more ire than is directed at them in this blog post. A lot of people seem to conflate speaking professionally with speaking like a doormat. Verizon, specifically the team in charge of this system, fucked up. There are varying levels to that of course; if you mess up the fonts in the end of month report to your super and he calls you a fucking idiot, he's probably an unbalanced person in need of mental help. If on the other hand you knock dead 15% of GLOBAL Internet traffic out of sheer laziness, I'd say you've earned more than a few 'go fuck yourself's.
  - bogomipz 7y ago
    How about leaking session tokens and other sensitive data for millions of people during "Cloudbleed"? Were you advocating public shaming for Cloudflare then? Was that also "sheer laziness" and did they earn "more than a few" of your "go fuck yourself's"?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - Varriount 7y ago
      I fail to see how Cloudbleed and this event are the same. Cloudbleed was caused by a Cloudflare bug, true, but it wasn't caused by outright laziness (which this incident clearly was). Furthermore, unlike Verizon's distinct lack of communication regarding this incident, Cloudflare has generally been very good about reporting and communicating with the community.
      - bogomipz 7y ago
        They are not same nor was I implying they were the same. The point being that oversight and genuine mistakes happen. However Cloudflare wants to characterize it as "sloppiness and laziness" when it's someone else. And even here you are "parroting" them here when neither you or they actually know the details do you? Clearly Verizon has prefix filtering in place in other places or this would be a regular occurrence for them and it is not. Cloudflare is pretty far down the list in importance during an outage that affected many companies - other Tier 1s, 2s etc. Just because Cloudflare didn't get a response does not mean they weren't communicating. I know two network engineers who were in contact with Verizon yesterday during the outage. But again you seem intent to just "pile on" after reading a one-sided and self-serving Cloudflare blog post.
      - collinmanderson 7y ago
        > outright laziness (which this incident clearly was) I don't think it was clearly laziness. It could have been a configuration mistake.
        bogomipz 7y ago
        Indeed and we saw that as a cause recently for a major Google outage. However that likely possibility of a bad config or edit doesn't fit the narrative Cloudflare is spinning here - that Verizon is simply dumb and lazy. Clearly Verizon has inbound prefix filtering in place otherwise this would be a common occurrence for AS 701 and it is most certainly not. And it's quite surprising and sad to see how willing people are to just blindly parrot Cloudflare here and pile on. This of course was the desired outcome of the blog post.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
parliament32 7y ago
This is the whole reason CF will never be seen as professional. Incidents like this, blog posts that've clearly not been anywhere close to a PR department, the whole CEO-blocking-sites-he-doesn't-like incident.. no wonder Verizon ignored their emails. CF is great if you need "free" protection for a pet project, not really anything more.

bogomipz 7y ago

Do you really think that "throwing shade" is what the internet needs? Is "throwing shade" an admirable quality in someone who is supposed to be demonstrating leadership? Anyone who has worked as a network engineer for a major ISP knows the internet is quite brittle. During my entire time in that profession I can't remember a time when attempting to shame people was used to resolve a routing issue or to improve relations in order to resolve future routing issues.

FussyZeus 7y ago
Shame is one of the most effective tools in influencing human behavior, and from the sounds of this post and the other coverage on the incident, Verizon has earned far more ire than is directed at them in this blog post. A lot of people seem to conflate speaking professionally with speaking like a doormat. Verizon, specifically the team in charge of this system, fucked up. There are varying levels to that of course; if you mess up the fonts in the end of month report to your super and he calls you a fucking idiot, he's probably an unbalanced person in need of mental help. If on the other hand you knock dead 15% of GLOBAL Internet traffic out of sheer laziness, I'd say you've earned more than a few 'go fuck yourself's.
- bogomipz 7y ago
  How about leaking session tokens and other sensitive data for millions of people during "Cloudbleed"? Were you advocating public shaming for Cloudflare then? Was that also "sheer laziness" and did they earn "more than a few" of your "go fuck yourself's"?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - Varriount 7y ago
    I fail to see how Cloudbleed and this event are the same. Cloudbleed was caused by a Cloudflare bug, true, but it wasn't caused by outright laziness (which this incident clearly was). Furthermore, unlike Verizon's distinct lack of communication regarding this incident, Cloudflare has generally been very good about reporting and communicating with the community.
    - bogomipz 7y ago
      They are not same nor was I implying they were the same. The point being that oversight and genuine mistakes happen. However Cloudflare wants to characterize it as "sloppiness and laziness" when it's someone else. And even here you are "parroting" them here when neither you or they actually know the details do you? Clearly Verizon has prefix filtering in place in other places or this would be a regular occurrence for them and it is not. Cloudflare is pretty far down the list in importance during an outage that affected many companies - other Tier 1s, 2s etc. Just because Cloudflare didn't get a response does not mean they weren't communicating. I know two network engineers who were in contact with Verizon yesterday during the outage. But again you seem intent to just "pile on" after reading a one-sided and self-serving Cloudflare blog post.
    - collinmanderson 7y ago
      > outright laziness (which this incident clearly was) I don't think it was clearly laziness. It could have been a configuration mistake.
      - bogomipz 7y ago
        Indeed and we saw that as a cause recently for a major Google outage. However that likely possibility of a bad config or edit doesn't fit the narrative Cloudflare is spinning here - that Verizon is simply dumb and lazy. Clearly Verizon has inbound prefix filtering in place otherwise this would be a common occurrence for AS 701 and it is most certainly not. And it's quite surprising and sad to see how willing people are to just blindly parrot Cloudflare here and pile on. This of course was the desired outcome of the blog post.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

parliament32 7y ago

This is the whole reason CF will never be seen as professional. Incidents like this, blog posts that've clearly not been anywhere close to a PR department, the whole CEO-blocking-sites-he-doesn't-like incident.. no wonder Verizon ignored their emails. CF is great if you need "free" protection for a pet project, not really anything more.