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Are you sure you don't just have low-level visualization skills? I think it's like a skill that you must practice. I spend about 30 minutes before bed imagining

Are you sure you don't just have low-level visualization skills? I think it's like a skill that you must practice. I spend about 30 minutes before bed imagining various 3D shapes on a stage and rotating them. This exercise improves my visualization.

harel 7y ago
Nothing. Total darkness. Now, to make thing more 'interesting', my wife is a Yoga teacher who also runs Yoga Nidra sessions, as well as doing Hypnotherapy. I'm no stranger to guided meditation and visualisations but when I'm asked to visualise X or Y, I conceptualise it. I can detail it in words, but I's concepts, not visuals. I'm aware of the idea of it, but don't see it. not a glimpse. My wife altered her instructions since we found this out giving a place for the mind-blinds like me.
- ecoled_ame 7y ago
  Maybe you're expecting too much from visualization. Obviously people aren't "seeing" anything. What happens if you try to conceptualize a pyramid from one angle, then conceptualize it from that angle +10˚, then + 10˚, ...? Ta-da, instant visualization.
  - harel 7y ago
    I think they are actually seeing things. My wife can bring up images at will. She can layer them on reality without even trying. and since I learned about this I've been asking people - most do "see" things to various degrees. I'd love to have that. I see absolutely nothing. If I close my eyes, I'm blind. I'm not sure this inability to visualise is uncommon. I think it's a pretty common thing. Maybe you and me are in the same boat - conceptualising, but not visualising.
    - ecoled_ame 7y ago
      Have you tried LSD or DMT? What about the sparkles behind your eyes from rhodopsin channels?
      - harel 7y ago
        Hmmm... I can not confirm or deny having taken these on public forums, but I'm pretty very sure these DO indeed bring in the visuals. The latter I would risk saying goes beyond visuals. More "transportative" if that is a word. I think the blindness is in it's natural unassisted form - but like anything software, can be hacked with the right patch.
    - loco5niner 7y ago
      > I think they are actually seeing things. Yes, this is true. I can also layer images on reality at will. My wife is the same as you. She sees nothing.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    I'm at 0/10 for visualising, total blackness. I'd have to do that via a word picture - like reading a dictionary definition for integrity and thinking about and exploring the concepts. Yet somehow, there is a non visual spatial sense to this, so I could sort-of know - more like a muscle memory of knowing how far to turn a dial, or how far to reach to scratch my toe - if the planned pyramid were going to overlap with a wall. Visualisation in a way that completely phases those with pictorial ability. :)
    - ecoled_ame 7y ago
      Have you tried LSD or DMT? And what about when you pull up to do a skateboard trick or something? Can't you visualize yourself doing the trick? Or what about sexual fantasies? I feel like you're being stubborn.
      - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        I have, and yep there were definite clear and strong visual hallucinations, with my eyes open (as far as I can remember). I'd never heard of aphantasia back then so I had no concept I wasn't just the same as everyone else. So there was no closing my eyes and trying to visualise on acid... I'd do skateboard or cycling by the seat of my pants - it's more a feel, a spatial sense, and a muscle memory thing again. I can definitely get a sense of doing it, so perhaps it stems more from touch than sight? Same with the sexual - it's the concept, the thought, the emotion, the feels. The sense of touch is definitely quite strong here. Visual needs pornhub. Sorry! :)
        ecoled_ame 7y ago
        Haha thank you for taking the time to answer. Have a great day.
  - loco5niner 7y ago
    > Obviously people aren't "seeing" anything Actually, I AM "seeing" something. Often, with a memory, I can see it in my minds eye just as if it was a picture in front of me. Right now, I'm visualizing a portrait of my mom, and now, the time as a kid I pet the tongue of a killer whale at Sea World.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Interesting. I'm also blessed with total darkness. Would you mind expanding on how your wife changed instruction? I've tried meditation quite a few times and always struggled to "get it". I think that's in no small part as every guiding audio has you visualising a hillside or something, which usually results in a system crash. :)
  - harel 7y ago
    Just altered her instructions slightly. Instead of something like "Visualise a ball of light in front of you in the space between the eyebrows", she would also add that if you are unable to visualise you can think of the that ball of light as a concept or idea. I think she's just saying for me though :) Did you just "discover" that blindness now or were you aware of it always? I just assumed everybody "visualise" in concepts so never gave it a second thought.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      Been aware of it for a few years since the reports of the university study started coming out. I always assumed everyone was the same too, and any prose talking of "now see that balloon, rotate it, make it bigger..." was just overblown metaphor or their inner internet marketer coming out. Which was a bit of a surprise as the other 50 years I'd never thought to query anyone about it. I asked quite a few friends when I first found out, and no doubt annoyed them with silly questions.
      - harel 7y ago
        yeah pretty much the same here, only my 'awakening' to my blindness is not even 2 months old... Now i wonder what else I've taken for granted but is very much not so

harel 7y ago

Nothing. Total darkness. Now, to make thing more 'interesting', my wife is a Yoga teacher who also runs Yoga Nidra sessions, as well as doing Hypnotherapy. I'm no stranger to guided meditation and visualisations but when I'm asked to visualise X or Y, I conceptualise it. I can detail it in words, but I's concepts, not visuals. I'm aware of the idea of it, but don't see it. not a glimpse. My wife altered her instructions since we found this out giving a place for the mind-blinds like me.

ecoled_ame 7y ago
Maybe you're expecting too much from visualization. Obviously people aren't "seeing" anything. What happens if you try to conceptualize a pyramid from one angle, then conceptualize it from that angle +10˚, then + 10˚, ...? Ta-da, instant visualization.
- harel 7y ago
  I think they are actually seeing things. My wife can bring up images at will. She can layer them on reality without even trying. and since I learned about this I've been asking people - most do "see" things to various degrees. I'd love to have that. I see absolutely nothing. If I close my eyes, I'm blind. I'm not sure this inability to visualise is uncommon. I think it's a pretty common thing. Maybe you and me are in the same boat - conceptualising, but not visualising.
  - ecoled_ame 7y ago
    Have you tried LSD or DMT? What about the sparkles behind your eyes from rhodopsin channels?
    - harel 7y ago
      Hmmm... I can not confirm or deny having taken these on public forums, but I'm pretty very sure these DO indeed bring in the visuals. The latter I would risk saying goes beyond visuals. More "transportative" if that is a word. I think the blindness is in it's natural unassisted form - but like anything software, can be hacked with the right patch.
  - loco5niner 7y ago
    > I think they are actually seeing things. Yes, this is true. I can also layer images on reality at will. My wife is the same as you. She sees nothing.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  I'm at 0/10 for visualising, total blackness. I'd have to do that via a word picture - like reading a dictionary definition for integrity and thinking about and exploring the concepts. Yet somehow, there is a non visual spatial sense to this, so I could sort-of know - more like a muscle memory of knowing how far to turn a dial, or how far to reach to scratch my toe - if the planned pyramid were going to overlap with a wall. Visualisation in a way that completely phases those with pictorial ability. :)
  - ecoled_ame 7y ago
    Have you tried LSD or DMT? And what about when you pull up to do a skateboard trick or something? Can't you visualize yourself doing the trick? Or what about sexual fantasies? I feel like you're being stubborn.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      I have, and yep there were definite clear and strong visual hallucinations, with my eyes open (as far as I can remember). I'd never heard of aphantasia back then so I had no concept I wasn't just the same as everyone else. So there was no closing my eyes and trying to visualise on acid... I'd do skateboard or cycling by the seat of my pants - it's more a feel, a spatial sense, and a muscle memory thing again. I can definitely get a sense of doing it, so perhaps it stems more from touch than sight? Same with the sexual - it's the concept, the thought, the emotion, the feels. The sense of touch is definitely quite strong here. Visual needs pornhub. Sorry! :)
      - ecoled_ame 7y ago
        Haha thank you for taking the time to answer. Have a great day.
- loco5niner 7y ago
  > Obviously people aren't "seeing" anything Actually, I AM "seeing" something. Often, with a memory, I can see it in my minds eye just as if it was a picture in front of me. Right now, I'm visualizing a portrait of my mom, and now, the time as a kid I pet the tongue of a killer whale at Sea World.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Interesting. I'm also blessed with total darkness. Would you mind expanding on how your wife changed instruction? I've tried meditation quite a few times and always struggled to "get it". I think that's in no small part as every guiding audio has you visualising a hillside or something, which usually results in a system crash. :)
- harel 7y ago
  Just altered her instructions slightly. Instead of something like "Visualise a ball of light in front of you in the space between the eyebrows", she would also add that if you are unable to visualise you can think of the that ball of light as a concept or idea. I think she's just saying for me though :) Did you just "discover" that blindness now or were you aware of it always? I just assumed everybody "visualise" in concepts so never gave it a second thought.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    Been aware of it for a few years since the reports of the university study started coming out. I always assumed everyone was the same too, and any prose talking of "now see that balloon, rotate it, make it bigger..." was just overblown metaphor or their inner internet marketer coming out. Which was a bit of a surprise as the other 50 years I'd never thought to query anyone about it. I asked quite a few friends when I first found out, and no doubt annoyed them with silly questions.
    - harel 7y ago
      yeah pretty much the same here, only my 'awakening' to my blindness is not even 2 months old... Now i wonder what else I've taken for granted but is very much not so