5 ms·

This, as a passing interest in HN and other sources started recently, I think, by a former big shot at Pixar who wrote (or was written about) having a blind min

by harel 7y ago

This, as a passing interest in HN and other sources started recently, I think, by a former big shot at Pixar who wrote (or was written about) having a blind mind's eye. Personally this article turned my world slightly upside down since I can't visualise. Instead I conceptualise ideas in total "darkness", without any visual imagery of any kind. I never thought twice about it and assumed everyone use the term "visualise" to describe what I'm experiencing. Because of the story posted, I learned after 43 years of existence in this body, that many people use the term visualise because they "visualise" imagery. I kinda felt cheated out of a really cool trait I suddenly never possessed (although it does now explain a lot of things I think might be related).

deogeo 7y ago
> (although it does now explain a lot of things I think might be related). If you'd like to share, I'm curious.
- harel 7y ago
  This is just a collection of things I've read that might or might not be related, mixed with my intuition of what might or might not be related: * Absolute rubbish sense of direction. I get lost on a straight road with a GPS. I can't look at a map and visualise a route - i need to properly understand it or know it from repetition (a lot of). * maybe a plus, maybe not even related - i can visualise sounds and music. I can play back a song or compose a tune in my head. I can "speak" in any accent in my head perfectly - it doesn't translate if I try it out loud but that is just bad speech skills. I also do some music production so this helps though I admit replicating the sound I hear is often very hard. * No attachment to past events. I can't "visualise" past arguments or bad events, so I'm left with a concept of them which very quickly fades away as it's just "words". Bygones are really bygones. This one I read somewhere as related. Not sure it is, but I do relate. * I can't draw to save my life, but I can at least copy something if it's simple and right in front of me. Always at awe at people who can draw out of their head (and I'm a son of an artist). * I remember events from a very early age (earliest memory is from 3 years old approx). But again, I remember specific actions i've done, and can recall the scene, but not visually. Just the idea/concept of it. * Just generally feeling like I missed out on something that is really cool. And more than that, missed out on the fact I'm missing out for 43 years. * I rarely remember dreams, but when I do it's a treat because in my dreams I do "see" the dream. I'm always excited when I wake up remembering a dream. It doesn't last though, I forget it soon enough, but that initial moment I know I "saw" something is really nice. * All those exercises of seeing a photo and then having to recall it - I find those really hard. I can only recall what I memorised verbally (One shoe, two combs on a table etc) - but can't recall the image itself visually.
  - AareyBaba 7y ago
    This is fascinating. What about visualizing geometrical objects and doing design ? I would assume that architecture or mechanical design would be something you would have a hard time.
    - harel 7y ago
      Nothing. Not even simple shapes. Only in concept form. Ideas, not images
    - harel 7y ago
      and yes, mechanical design is hard for me, but I can hold a concept of very large software systems in my head and understand how it all connects conceptually.
  - harel 7y ago
    One more thing, related or not: I play guitar and keyboard. Not virtuoso but I can play. I can only remember chords I practised or used from muscle memory, and although I play both for over 25 years, I can't for the life of me remember the notes on the strings beyond the two E-s. Keyboards are easier for me in that regard. I also never remember chords for songs so me playing is pretty much either improvisations or having a song chords in front of me.
ecoled_ame 7y ago
Are you sure you don't just have low-level visualization skills? I think it's like a skill that you must practice. I spend about 30 minutes before bed imagining various 3D shapes on a stage and rotating them. This exercise improves my visualization.
- harel 7y ago
  Nothing. Total darkness. Now, to make thing more 'interesting', my wife is a Yoga teacher who also runs Yoga Nidra sessions, as well as doing Hypnotherapy. I'm no stranger to guided meditation and visualisations but when I'm asked to visualise X or Y, I conceptualise it. I can detail it in words, but I's concepts, not visuals. I'm aware of the idea of it, but don't see it. not a glimpse. My wife altered her instructions since we found this out giving a place for the mind-blinds like me.
  - ecoled_ame 7y ago
    Maybe you're expecting too much from visualization. Obviously people aren't "seeing" anything. What happens if you try to conceptualize a pyramid from one angle, then conceptualize it from that angle +10˚, then + 10˚, ...? Ta-da, instant visualization.
    - harel 7y ago
      I think they are actually seeing things. My wife can bring up images at will. She can layer them on reality without even trying. and since I learned about this I've been asking people - most do "see" things to various degrees. I'd love to have that. I see absolutely nothing. If I close my eyes, I'm blind. I'm not sure this inability to visualise is uncommon. I think it's a pretty common thing. Maybe you and me are in the same boat - conceptualising, but not visualising.
      - ecoled_ame 7y ago
        Have you tried LSD or DMT? What about the sparkles behind your eyes from rhodopsin channels?
dang 7y ago
Right you are. It was Ed Catmull. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19618927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19618927

by harel 7y ago

deogeo 7y ago

> (although it does now explain a lot of things I think might be related). If you'd like to share, I'm curious.

harel 7y ago
This is just a collection of things I've read that might or might not be related, mixed with my intuition of what might or might not be related: * Absolute rubbish sense of direction. I get lost on a straight road with a GPS. I can't look at a map and visualise a route - i need to properly understand it or know it from repetition (a lot of). * maybe a plus, maybe not even related - i can visualise sounds and music. I can play back a song or compose a tune in my head. I can "speak" in any accent in my head perfectly - it doesn't translate if I try it out loud but that is just bad speech skills. I also do some music production so this helps though I admit replicating the sound I hear is often very hard. * No attachment to past events. I can't "visualise" past arguments or bad events, so I'm left with a concept of them which very quickly fades away as it's just "words". Bygones are really bygones. This one I read somewhere as related. Not sure it is, but I do relate. * I can't draw to save my life, but I can at least copy something if it's simple and right in front of me. Always at awe at people who can draw out of their head (and I'm a son of an artist). * I remember events from a very early age (earliest memory is from 3 years old approx). But again, I remember specific actions i've done, and can recall the scene, but not visually. Just the idea/concept of it. * Just generally feeling like I missed out on something that is really cool. And more than that, missed out on the fact I'm missing out for 43 years. * I rarely remember dreams, but when I do it's a treat because in my dreams I do "see" the dream. I'm always excited when I wake up remembering a dream. It doesn't last though, I forget it soon enough, but that initial moment I know I "saw" something is really nice. * All those exercises of seeing a photo and then having to recall it - I find those really hard. I can only recall what I memorised verbally (One shoe, two combs on a table etc) - but can't recall the image itself visually.
- AareyBaba 7y ago
  This is fascinating. What about visualizing geometrical objects and doing design ? I would assume that architecture or mechanical design would be something you would have a hard time.
  - harel 7y ago
    Nothing. Not even simple shapes. Only in concept form. Ideas, not images
  - harel 7y ago
    and yes, mechanical design is hard for me, but I can hold a concept of very large software systems in my head and understand how it all connects conceptually.
- harel 7y ago
  One more thing, related or not: I play guitar and keyboard. Not virtuoso but I can play. I can only remember chords I practised or used from muscle memory, and although I play both for over 25 years, I can't for the life of me remember the notes on the strings beyond the two E-s. Keyboards are easier for me in that regard. I also never remember chords for songs so me playing is pretty much either improvisations or having a song chords in front of me.

ecoled_ame 7y ago

Are you sure you don't just have low-level visualization skills? I think it's like a skill that you must practice. I spend about 30 minutes before bed imagining various 3D shapes on a stage and rotating them. This exercise improves my visualization.

harel 7y ago
Nothing. Total darkness. Now, to make thing more 'interesting', my wife is a Yoga teacher who also runs Yoga Nidra sessions, as well as doing Hypnotherapy. I'm no stranger to guided meditation and visualisations but when I'm asked to visualise X or Y, I conceptualise it. I can detail it in words, but I's concepts, not visuals. I'm aware of the idea of it, but don't see it. not a glimpse. My wife altered her instructions since we found this out giving a place for the mind-blinds like me.
- ecoled_ame 7y ago
  Maybe you're expecting too much from visualization. Obviously people aren't "seeing" anything. What happens if you try to conceptualize a pyramid from one angle, then conceptualize it from that angle +10˚, then + 10˚, ...? Ta-da, instant visualization.
  - harel 7y ago
    I think they are actually seeing things. My wife can bring up images at will. She can layer them on reality without even trying. and since I learned about this I've been asking people - most do "see" things to various degrees. I'd love to have that. I see absolutely nothing. If I close my eyes, I'm blind. I'm not sure this inability to visualise is uncommon. I think it's a pretty common thing. Maybe you and me are in the same boat - conceptualising, but not visualising.
    - ecoled_ame 7y ago
      Have you tried LSD or DMT? What about the sparkles behind your eyes from rhodopsin channels?

dang 7y ago

Right you are. It was Ed Catmull. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19618927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19618927