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The wood and timer building are surprisingly folksy, I agree. However the awnings will do nothing to prevent windblown snow from accumulating. I mean if they

The wood and timer building are surprisingly folksy, I agree. However the awnings will do nothing to prevent windblown snow from accumulating. I mean if they did, then you'd see Torontonians install all kinds of non IOT awnings for this purpose. I also hear that they will install special pavers that will be heated to melt ice/snow, but that will be very expensive energy wise. None of it seems practical. I appreciate that they are proposing better transit connections, but the TTC has a stranglehold on that kind of thing in this city, and I don't see how they are going to get past that. Also it's a bit patronizing to the local residents to assume that, just because they are Google, that they will immediately have better insights into solving local problems. It reminds me a bit of that form for telling people why their anti spam idea would never work.¹ They should have one for IOT projects too. The core problem with their entire proposal, is that they are proposing technical solutions to political problems. 1: https://craphound.com/spamsolutions.txt https://craphound.com/spamsolutions.txt

username444 7y ago
The heated pavers would be terribly wasteful. It's a bad idea. And awnings aren't a replacement for good indoor walkways. Shitty weather is shitty weather. But they're a huge benefit on sidewalks, for the 90% of rain/snow that isn't shitty weather. I live in a build that has these along the entire block and it's a godsend. But mass timber / cross-laminated timber is actually projected to be an ideal future building material. Even for high rises. It's not folksy. Almost every architect I've talked to would love to build a mid/high rise with it. https://www.constructiondive.com/news/mass-timber-101-understanding-the-emerging-building-type/443476/ https://www.constructiondive.com/news/mass-timber-101-unders... https://globalnews.ca/news/4957218/canada-mass-timber-high-rise-construction/ https://globalnews.ca/news/4957218/canada-mass-timber-high-r...
- gerbilly 7y ago
  > It's not folksy. Almost every architect I've talked to would love to build a mid/high rise with it. I didn't mean 'folksy' as an insult. I was just surprised that google would propose a material outside the usual brutalist design palette (concrete, glass, steel, etc...)
jdsully 7y ago
Many towns have found that heated sidewalks actually save money vs snow removal (when lawsuits from slips and falls are included). The main problem with it is public perception its a wasteful luxury item instead of the money saver it is. > Holland also calls its heating system a money-saver, saying it has reduced slips and falls, requires no snow removal, salt or sand, and has extended pavement life. https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/01/30/a-new-canadian-city-flirts-with-the-dream-heated-downtown-sidewalks/ https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/01/30/a-new-canadian-city-f...
- username444 7y ago
  Thanks, I hadn't seen this article. And yes, they might save money on snow removal. Downtown Toronto though, I don't see it. Even if 3 blocks have heated sidewalks, the sidewalk plow has to drive over them to reach the next segment. Those costs wouldn't decrease. Saving on salting and sidewalk damage from freeze/thaw could be impactful. But the cost of digging up sidewalks (which happens _all the time_) would increase significantly. Then there's the added expenses of maintenance - leaky pipes that requiring digging up the sidewalk. The installation and maintenance requires skilled labour - union plumbers. Installing concrete sidewalks and plowing requires much lower wages. Overall, the article makes no solid argument for it saving money, and does nothing more than speculate it could be cost saving. Where's the actual numbers from other cities who have implemented this?
  - jdsully 7y ago
    Toronto already has a steam system that goes through the downtown core. It’s not that far to pipe some of it to the surface.

username444 7y ago

The heated pavers would be terribly wasteful. It's a bad idea. And awnings aren't a replacement for good indoor walkways. Shitty weather is shitty weather. But they're a huge benefit on sidewalks, for the 90% of rain/snow that isn't shitty weather. I live in a build that has these along the entire block and it's a godsend. But mass timber / cross-laminated timber is actually projected to be an ideal future building material. Even for high rises. It's not folksy. Almost every architect I've talked to would love to build a mid/high rise with it. https://www.constructiondive.com/news/mass-timber-101-understanding-the-emerging-building-type/443476/ https://www.constructiondive.com/news/mass-timber-101-unders... https://globalnews.ca/news/4957218/canada-mass-timber-high-rise-construction/ https://globalnews.ca/news/4957218/canada-mass-timber-high-r...

gerbilly 7y ago
> It's not folksy. Almost every architect I've talked to would love to build a mid/high rise with it. I didn't mean 'folksy' as an insult. I was just surprised that google would propose a material outside the usual brutalist design palette (concrete, glass, steel, etc...)

jdsully 7y ago

Many towns have found that heated sidewalks actually save money vs snow removal (when lawsuits from slips and falls are included). The main problem with it is public perception its a wasteful luxury item instead of the money saver it is. > Holland also calls its heating system a money-saver, saying it has reduced slips and falls, requires no snow removal, salt or sand, and has extended pavement life. https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/01/30/a-new-canadian-city-flirts-with-the-dream-heated-downtown-sidewalks/ https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/01/30/a-new-canadian-city-f...

username444 7y ago
Thanks, I hadn't seen this article. And yes, they might save money on snow removal. Downtown Toronto though, I don't see it. Even if 3 blocks have heated sidewalks, the sidewalk plow has to drive over them to reach the next segment. Those costs wouldn't decrease. Saving on salting and sidewalk damage from freeze/thaw could be impactful. But the cost of digging up sidewalks (which happens _all the time_) would increase significantly. Then there's the added expenses of maintenance - leaky pipes that requiring digging up the sidewalk. The installation and maintenance requires skilled labour - union plumbers. Installing concrete sidewalks and plowing requires much lower wages. Overall, the article makes no solid argument for it saving money, and does nothing more than speculate it could be cost saving. Where's the actual numbers from other cities who have implemented this?
- jdsully 7y ago
  Toronto already has a steam system that goes through the downtown core. It’s not that far to pipe some of it to the surface.