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I'm from Italy and it's the first time I see this brand. Anyone could explain why it costs an order of magnitude more than a Delonghi with similar specs?

by carlob 7y ago

cylinder 7y ago
Agree with this sentiment. This machine gets a lot of internet hype. I thought I would buy one but then I got a a Breville Bambino and grinder for half the cost of the Silvia and it takes up half the space and looks nicer. Couldn't be happier.
convivialdingo 7y ago
The cheaper espresso machines have reliability problems, so people spend more to get a better product. The ability to modify and repair the machines is helpful also. It's more like a hobby than just a coffee maker for some people.
bubblethink 7y ago
It used to be good and cheap (relatively), which is why it became popular. And then the prices went up (by 2-3x) in the last few years.
moby_click 7y ago
I'm not familiar with Rancilio, but it looks like the Silvia uses a group head that is at least compatible with ther professional machines. That gives access to a huge range of parts like filter baskets, tampers and also easy access to replacement parts like gaskets. I inherited a consumer DeLonghi, that basically looks like most of their espresso machines and it's nothing like a professional machine. They use dual wall instead of single wall filter baskets, the steam wand differs a lot and my machine shoots a couple of jets of water into the coffee, preventing even extraction. I did however happen to find beans that got decent results on that machine, so it's not like there's a strict total order of quality that leads to a one dimensional result. Professional machines are much more pleasant to work with, though.
- lostlogin 7y ago
  > it looks like the Silvia uses a group head that is at least compatible with ther professional machines. It is. A 58mm tamper fits perfectly from memory. The early ones shipped with a weird little aluminium one that should be avoided. All the bits in them are easily replaced. My best upgrade was refitting the mesh screens screw with a nut so that you weren’t trying to unscrew it with a tiny screwdriver, upside down.
Bokanovsky 7y ago
Rancilio primarily make coffee machines for coffee shops. The Siliva is a cut down version of a shop coffee machine. It's targeted for home enthusiast or a place expecting to make the occasional coffee. If you compare it to a regular home coffee machine the Rancilio contains more metal. The portafilter (the thing with the handle that contains the basket where the coffee grinds are put) is the same as their shop grade machines. It's big and heavy and feels solid like it'll last a long time. While if you compare the portafilter of a regular home coffee machine they often feel cheap and flimsy. The switches on the front feel industrial too. With the exception of a few bits (as noted in the article) the exterior is mainly stainless steel. While other home coffee machines at similar price point (and above) are far more plasticy. The Siliva is often a good introduction for home coffee enthusiasts and hardware hackers alike. They're often recommended on coffee snob forums as a result. They're fairly ubiquitous so getting parts is straight forward. IIRC The manual contains circuit diagrams. It's easy to open and tinker with too. The most common modification is adding a PID controller to regulate the temperature. The machine itself is straightforward but fills a niche. The next level up of more expensive home enthusiast machines generally cost at least twice the price. The next level up of coffee machine generally includes a PID and often twin boilers, so you can use one boiler for shots and the other boiler to foam milk. While with the Siliva as it's only got a single boiler you have to do your shots first, then switch it over to steam mode. If you look after Siliva it can last for 10 years or more (I've had mine that long and it's still going on). I really want a duel boiler machine, but I'm trying to figure out which ones are good at the moment. It'd say a Delonghi with similar specs is aimed at someone more causal. The kind of audience George Clooney is targeting with Nespresso. While the Siliva is not aimed at someone who just wants a coffee. You have to learn how to make decent coffee and for that it needs to be paired with a good grinder.
- alfiedotwtf 7y ago
  > I really want a duel boiler machine, but I'm trying to figure out which ones are good at the moment Check out the Brewtus (Expobar Minore IV). Double boiler, E61 group head, PID. God shot territory every pull.
  - abakker 7y ago
rhinoceraptor 7y ago
I think it's mostly because it's a simple machine, so it's good for hacking and therefore has a large community.
pandaman 7y ago
The main difference is in the way it makes espresso. Traditionally espresso is extracted with high pressure (9 bar) water. That pressure is build on top of the coffee. When the water passes the coffee and its pressure drops it foams up. This foam is the only way most people can tell they've got an espresso and not some other coffee drink. To be able to build up 9 bar of pressure the coffee has to be fairly fine ground and, most importantly, fresh. Most people do not want to bother with grinding coffee and buy pre-ground. Pre-ground coffee cannot build enough resistance to create any significant foam. So the appliance-level machines, targeted for pre-ground coffee, come with a valve in the portafilter after the coffee. That valve creates espresso-like foam in the resulting drink, which is not much different from a regularly brewed coffee otherwise. Using these machines with a fresh grind is also problematic - they usually miss overpressure valve before coffee and sport a standard 15-20 bar vibro pump. This results in pressure building up way above 9 bar and fracturing the coffee layer, directing all water through narrow channels and missing most of the grounds. tl;dr it's pretty hard to make proper espresso with a Delonghi.
- huhtenberg 7y ago
  Persistent foam (crema) forms due to the presence of trapped CO2 in the grind, rather than just the high pressure. Espresso grind is special. It's not just fairly fine grind, it's a mix of fine, moderate and coarse grinds that are packed together. If you are to try and use just an uniformly fine grind for espresso, the machine will have very hard time extracting from it - literally a drop a second instead of a flow.
  - pandaman 7y ago
    >Persistent foam (crema) forms due to the presence of trapped CO2 in the grind, rather than just the high pressure. If this had been true, you could just toss coffee grounds into hot water and it would foam up. > If you are to try and use just an uniformly fine grind for espresso, the machine will have very hard time extracting from it - literally a drop a second instead of a flow. Really? Any uniformity in grind will block machine? Could you explain physics behind such phenomenon please?

I'm from Italy and it's the first time I see this brand. Anyone could explain why it costs an order of magnitude more than a Delonghi with similar specs?

by carlob 7y ago

I'm from Italy and it's the first time I see this brand. Anyone could explain why it costs an order of magnitude more than a Delonghi with similar specs?

cylinder 7y ago

Agree with this sentiment. This machine gets a lot of internet hype. I thought I would buy one but then I got a a Breville Bambino and grinder for half the cost of the Silvia and it takes up half the space and looks nicer. Couldn't be happier.

convivialdingo 7y ago

The cheaper espresso machines have reliability problems, so people spend more to get a better product. The ability to modify and repair the machines is helpful also. It's more like a hobby than just a coffee maker for some people.

bubblethink 7y ago

It used to be good and cheap (relatively), which is why it became popular. And then the prices went up (by 2-3x) in the last few years.

moby_click 7y ago

I'm not familiar with Rancilio, but it looks like the Silvia uses a group head that is at least compatible with ther professional machines. That gives access to a huge range of parts like filter baskets, tampers and also easy access to replacement parts like gaskets. I inherited a consumer DeLonghi, that basically looks like most of their espresso machines and it's nothing like a professional machine. They use dual wall instead of single wall filter baskets, the steam wand differs a lot and my machine shoots a couple of jets of water into the coffee, preventing even extraction. I did however happen to find beans that got decent results on that machine, so it's not like there's a strict total order of quality that leads to a one dimensional result. Professional machines are much more pleasant to work with, though.

lostlogin 7y ago
> it looks like the Silvia uses a group head that is at least compatible with ther professional machines. It is. A 58mm tamper fits perfectly from memory. The early ones shipped with a weird little aluminium one that should be avoided. All the bits in them are easily replaced. My best upgrade was refitting the mesh screens screw with a nut so that you weren’t trying to unscrew it with a tiny screwdriver, upside down.

Bokanovsky 7y ago

Rancilio primarily make coffee machines for coffee shops. The Siliva is a cut down version of a shop coffee machine. It's targeted for home enthusiast or a place expecting to make the occasional coffee. If you compare it to a regular home coffee machine the Rancilio contains more metal. The portafilter (the thing with the handle that contains the basket where the coffee grinds are put) is the same as their shop grade machines. It's big and heavy and feels solid like it'll last a long time. While if you compare the portafilter of a regular home coffee machine they often feel cheap and flimsy. The switches on the front feel industrial too. With the exception of a few bits (as noted in the article) the exterior is mainly stainless steel. While other home coffee machines at similar price point (and above) are far more plasticy. The Siliva is often a good introduction for home coffee enthusiasts and hardware hackers alike. They're often recommended on coffee snob forums as a result. They're fairly ubiquitous so getting parts is straight forward. IIRC The manual contains circuit diagrams. It's easy to open and tinker with too. The most common modification is adding a PID controller to regulate the temperature. The machine itself is straightforward but fills a niche. The next level up of more expensive home enthusiast machines generally cost at least twice the price. The next level up of coffee machine generally includes a PID and often twin boilers, so you can use one boiler for shots and the other boiler to foam milk. While with the Siliva as it's only got a single boiler you have to do your shots first, then switch it over to steam mode. If you look after Siliva it can last for 10 years or more (I've had mine that long and it's still going on). I really want a duel boiler machine, but I'm trying to figure out which ones are good at the moment. It'd say a Delonghi with similar specs is aimed at someone more causal. The kind of audience George Clooney is targeting with Nespresso. While the Siliva is not aimed at someone who just wants a coffee. You have to learn how to make decent coffee and for that it needs to be paired with a good grinder.

alfiedotwtf 7y ago
> I really want a duel boiler machine, but I'm trying to figure out which ones are good at the moment Check out the Brewtus (Expobar Minore IV). Double boiler, E61 group head, PID. God shot territory every pull.
- abakker 7y ago

rhinoceraptor 7y ago

I think it's mostly because it's a simple machine, so it's good for hacking and therefore has a large community.

pandaman 7y ago

The main difference is in the way it makes espresso. Traditionally espresso is extracted with high pressure (9 bar) water. That pressure is build on top of the coffee. When the water passes the coffee and its pressure drops it foams up. This foam is the only way most people can tell they've got an espresso and not some other coffee drink. To be able to build up 9 bar of pressure the coffee has to be fairly fine ground and, most importantly, fresh. Most people do not want to bother with grinding coffee and buy pre-ground. Pre-ground coffee cannot build enough resistance to create any significant foam. So the appliance-level machines, targeted for pre-ground coffee, come with a valve in the portafilter after the coffee. That valve creates espresso-like foam in the resulting drink, which is not much different from a regularly brewed coffee otherwise. Using these machines with a fresh grind is also problematic - they usually miss overpressure valve before coffee and sport a standard 15-20 bar vibro pump. This results in pressure building up way above 9 bar and fracturing the coffee layer, directing all water through narrow channels and missing most of the grounds. tl;dr it's pretty hard to make proper espresso with a Delonghi.

huhtenberg 7y ago
Persistent foam (crema) forms due to the presence of trapped CO2 in the grind, rather than just the high pressure. Espresso grind is special. It's not just fairly fine grind, it's a mix of fine, moderate and coarse grinds that are packed together. If you are to try and use just an uniformly fine grind for espresso, the machine will have very hard time extracting from it - literally a drop a second instead of a flow.
- pandaman 7y ago
  >Persistent foam (crema) forms due to the presence of trapped CO2 in the grind, rather than just the high pressure. If this had been true, you could just toss coffee grounds into hot water and it would foam up. > If you are to try and use just an uniformly fine grind for espresso, the machine will have very hard time extracting from it - literally a drop a second instead of a flow. Really? Any uniformity in grind will block machine? Could you explain physics behind such phenomenon please?