5 ms·

Startup Title Junk

298 points by danecjensen 16y ago

markbao 16y ago
Awesome. I never knew you could do stuff like this. We need more articles like this one on HN.
patio11 16y ago
People pay me money for this, and I didn't know that trick. Thanks. As long as we're all here obsessing on title tags: Apples, Oranges, Potatoes | Farmly is my go-to template for a title tag. You'll find in very competitive verticals the title is more optimized and less English, e.g. by not having the natural "and" before Potatoes. Companies not dependent on rankings for customers acquisition can use the title tag to compete for CTR on the SERP. This is most relevant to companies with very recognizable brands. e.g. see whatever Amazon's title is now. Almost everybody will maximize for search engines on leaf node pages.
- dfabulich 16y ago
  You didn't know about that Opensearch trick because it's not actually true... it doesn't really work. Google acquires page titles from a variety of sources, including Dmoz, domain name, and inbound links. For example: Search for [msnbc], and it shows up as “msnbc.com” … title tag: “Breaking News, Weather, Business, Health, Entertainment, Sports, Politics, Travel, Science, Technology, Local, US & World News – msnbc.com” [new yorker] shows up as “The New Yorker” … title tag: “National and world news, Profiles, culture, reviews, fiction, poetry : The New Yorker” [redfin] shows up as “Redfin” … title tag: “Search Homes for Sale & Find Real Estate Agents Who Put You First | Redfin” None of those pages have opensearch documents.
  - danecjensen 16y ago
    You are correct. I knew that google was showing brands like the redfin example, but when I saw the opensearch xml document, I assumed it was a way to relay more meta information to google. It appears that the actual purpose of the opensearch xml document is to describe the search engine which exists on the homepage of airbnb.com. That explains why more sites don't do it. It isn't actually relevant unless you are running a custom search engine. We have updated the blog post, and I'm sorry for the confusion about this point. Still, I very much believe in the takeaway message that it is important to craft a strong title for your website.
    - slewis 16y ago
      Please put an edit at the top of the article in addition to the one at the bottom. This article has the potential to waste the time of those who don't read all the way through.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
zach 16y ago
Fantastic. Applying it to my site right now. I'm a little humbled to realize I've stopped viewing source as much as I did five years ago. I really should do it more often so I can see cool things like this, especially for sites with great SEO. Love the random Wag's Revue shout-out. I happened to meet one of the editors at E3 and discovered it that way, but via Google would've been a lot easier. It deserves more notice.
enoptix 16y ago
This is very interesting. There are a lot of brand-sensitive client types such as healthcare organizatons and higher education who would love this. I do have one question though. According to Wikipedia's list of software and search engines that support OpenSearch, only Google Chrome is on the list. [1] Google as a search engine is not listed. The screenshot in the article is also in Chrome. I wonder if this feature is supported in Firefox or IE. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSearch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSearch edit: tested in Firefox, it works. this is great!
- zck 16y ago
  It works for me, Firefox 3.6 on Linux. Searching "airbnb" has the shortname shown: http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=Airbnb&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&#3... , while searching "vacation rental for the night" has the standard title shown: http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=vacation+rental+for+the+night&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&#3...
  - kristofferR 16y ago
    It didn't work for me, I got the "Vacation rentals, private rooms, sublets by the night - Accommodations on Airbnb" as page title entering from both searches. Using Safari on OS X
- drivebyacct2 16y ago
  The alternative to Google doing it, would be your browser fetching every single page, reading the meta tag, retrieving the XML, parsing it and then displaying the contained title tag. Without trying Firefox, I can pretty safely say that's not happening in the milliseconds that it takes for Google to get me my results and my browser to render them fully.
thegyppo 16y ago
I don't think this has anything to do with the Opensearch.xml file, from what I've seen Google is also doing this manually. Previously they have been using the title from DMOZ but, Check out our startup in the SERPS "StoreCrowd" the branded search returns the brand name in the results. However our title reads more like "Coupon Codes, Deals & Discounts for Online Stores" We launched an Australian version with an optimised title tag but it appears in branded search as "StoreCrowd Australia". Neither sites are in DMOZ nor do we use the Opensearch protocol.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  Google does do some of this, but it's not fully automatic. You still mark up your content, but it makes it easy for them to pull it out: http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/05/introducing-rich-snippets.html http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/05/introduci...
- underdown 16y ago
  Agreed. this happens to most brands once they get some brand search going. has nothing to do with the site search
codemechanic 16y ago
Great. Thanks for the tips
Xuzz 16y ago
This seems backwards to me. Shouldn't the "extended" description be the one hidden from the user's title bar, not the short one?
- heyrhett 16y ago
  It's a little bit confusing. The "extended" description does, in fact, show up in the title bar. The short one only shows up in the google search link. The point is, imagine you're trying to get to the Airbnb website, and you're the type of user who is going to type "airbnb" (or the closest thing you can remember to that) into google. When google returns the Airbnb url, the optimal thing for them to display is "Airbnb". If they returned the extended title, it would blend in more with the other search results, and it might take a user longer to find it. The title plays an important role with the your whole customer user experience if you consider the role it plays in getting them to your page. By providing flexible search anchor tag text, you can hint at google about your service relevance, while also targeting users who are already familiar with your brand.
  - thristian 16y ago
    There's two pieces of text relevant: the "extended" description that introduces the site to people who don't already know it (such as search-engine users), and the "short" description that has the site's actual branding for people who are already familiar with it. In an ideal world, the <title> element would contain the short description, for bookmarking purposes, while the OpenSearch metadata would contain the extended description for search engines. It's kind of unfortunate that it's the opposite way around.
    - Xuzz 16y ago
      Thanks for saying that much better than me.
    - drivebyacct2 16y ago
      Use user-agent or javascript to do this. Seems like a good idea. I'd much rather see "HN | Startup Title Ju..." than "Hacker News | Startu..." in my tab. Especially if I'm trying to remember which HN tab I'm trying to get back to. (edit: actually "HN | Startup Title Junk" all fits in the tab with my font config)
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
gommm 16y ago
Very interesting, I didn't know about Opensearch. I'll spend my afternoon setting it up on my websites... Now if browsers and bookmarking service start using the Short name for the title bar, we will have reinvented the meta keywords tag :-)
there 16y ago
i had somewhat the opposite problem: my site was showing up on yahoo's search with a weird title, something i've never had as my title and certainly not anywhere in my html. i emailed them and they replied saying, "The title and description listed in the Yahoo! Search results can come from many different places, only one of which is the actual metadata in the page itself. The title and description can also come from descriptions on other websites which link to yours or directory services such as the Yahoo! Directory or other third party directory services." i had to add "noodp, noydir" to the meta robots tag on my site to prevent this from happening.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
poundy 16y ago
Bing does not change its title for airbnb http://www.bing.com/search?q=airbnb http://www.bing.com/search?q=airbnb Cool trick!
al_james 16y ago
Everybody who is diving off to take advantage of this trick, stop, its not true. The opensearch protocol describes the onsite search interface, so browsers (that support it) can add that search engine as an option. So, in effect, the opensearch link on the AirBnB sist is just saying "hey, if you want you can access the AirBnB search engine straight from your browser". It has absolutely nothing to do with how google (etc.) index and display your site in their search results. Instead, the AirBnB homepage comes up as 'AirBnB' (mostly) because it has a huge number of trusted incoming links containing hypertext 'AirBnB'. Google treats these as kind of 'alternative title text suggestions', and if you get enough they can override the actual page text in some cases. So the trick is (as always) to link build.
Aegean 16y ago
How do we increase the chance to get sitelinks to show up on google?
- slig 16y ago
  You have to the THE relevant authority on that keyword. FYI, you can check your sites on Google Webmasters tool.

298 points by danecjensen 16y ago

Awesome. I never knew you could do stuff like this. We need more articles like this one on HN.

People pay me money for this, and I didn't know that trick. Thanks. As long as we're all here obsessing on title tags: Apples, Oranges, Potatoes | Farmly is my go-to template for a title tag. You'll find in very competitive verticals the title is more optimized and less English, e.g. by not having the natural "and" before Potatoes. Companies not dependent on rankings for customers acquisition can use the title tag to compete for CTR on the SERP. This is most relevant to companies with very recognizable brands. e.g. see whatever Amazon's title is now. Almost everybody will maximize for search engines on leaf node pages.

dfabulich 16y ago
You didn't know about that Opensearch trick because it's not actually true... it doesn't really work. Google acquires page titles from a variety of sources, including Dmoz, domain name, and inbound links. For example: Search for [msnbc], and it shows up as “msnbc.com” … title tag: “Breaking News, Weather, Business, Health, Entertainment, Sports, Politics, Travel, Science, Technology, Local, US & World News – msnbc.com” [new yorker] shows up as “The New Yorker” … title tag: “National and world news, Profiles, culture, reviews, fiction, poetry : The New Yorker” [redfin] shows up as “Redfin” … title tag: “Search Homes for Sale & Find Real Estate Agents Who Put You First | Redfin” None of those pages have opensearch documents.
- danecjensen 16y ago
  You are correct. I knew that google was showing brands like the redfin example, but when I saw the opensearch xml document, I assumed it was a way to relay more meta information to google. It appears that the actual purpose of the opensearch xml document is to describe the search engine which exists on the homepage of airbnb.com. That explains why more sites don't do it. It isn't actually relevant unless you are running a custom search engine. We have updated the blog post, and I'm sorry for the confusion about this point. Still, I very much believe in the takeaway message that it is important to craft a strong title for your website.
  - slewis 16y ago
    Please put an edit at the top of the article in addition to the one at the bottom. This article has the potential to waste the time of those who don't read all the way through.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

zach 16y ago

Fantastic. Applying it to my site right now. I'm a little humbled to realize I've stopped viewing source as much as I did five years ago. I really should do it more often so I can see cool things like this, especially for sites with great SEO. Love the random Wag's Revue shout-out. I happened to meet one of the editors at E3 and discovered it that way, but via Google would've been a lot easier. It deserves more notice.

enoptix 16y ago

This is very interesting. There are a lot of brand-sensitive client types such as healthcare organizatons and higher education who would love this. I do have one question though. According to Wikipedia's list of software and search engines that support OpenSearch, only Google Chrome is on the list. [1] Google as a search engine is not listed. The screenshot in the article is also in Chrome. I wonder if this feature is supported in Firefox or IE. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSearch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSearch edit: tested in Firefox, it works. this is great!

zck 16y ago
It works for me, Firefox 3.6 on Linux. Searching "airbnb" has the shortname shown: http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=Airbnb&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&#3... , while searching "vacation rental for the night" has the standard title shown: http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=vacation+rental+for+the+night&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&#3...
- kristofferR 16y ago
  It didn't work for me, I got the "Vacation rentals, private rooms, sublets by the night - Accommodations on Airbnb" as page title entering from both searches. Using Safari on OS X
drivebyacct2 16y ago
The alternative to Google doing it, would be your browser fetching every single page, reading the meta tag, retrieving the XML, parsing it and then displaying the contained title tag. Without trying Firefox, I can pretty safely say that's not happening in the milliseconds that it takes for Google to get me my results and my browser to render them fully.

thegyppo 16y ago

I don't think this has anything to do with the Opensearch.xml file, from what I've seen Google is also doing this manually. Previously they have been using the title from DMOZ but, Check out our startup in the SERPS "StoreCrowd" the branded search returns the brand name in the results. However our title reads more like "Coupon Codes, Deals & Discounts for Online Stores" We launched an Australian version with an optimised title tag but it appears in branded search as "StoreCrowd Australia". Neither sites are in DMOZ nor do we use the Opensearch protocol.

steveklabnik 16y ago
Google does do some of this, but it's not fully automatic. You still mark up your content, but it makes it easy for them to pull it out: http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/05/introducing-rich-snippets.html http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/05/introduci...
underdown 16y ago
Agreed. this happens to most brands once they get some brand search going. has nothing to do with the site search

codemechanic 16y ago

Great. Thanks for the tips

Xuzz 16y ago

This seems backwards to me. Shouldn't the "extended" description be the one hidden from the user's title bar, not the short one?

heyrhett 16y ago
It's a little bit confusing. The "extended" description does, in fact, show up in the title bar. The short one only shows up in the google search link. The point is, imagine you're trying to get to the Airbnb website, and you're the type of user who is going to type "airbnb" (or the closest thing you can remember to that) into google. When google returns the Airbnb url, the optimal thing for them to display is "Airbnb". If they returned the extended title, it would blend in more with the other search results, and it might take a user longer to find it. The title plays an important role with the your whole customer user experience if you consider the role it plays in getting them to your page. By providing flexible search anchor tag text, you can hint at google about your service relevance, while also targeting users who are already familiar with your brand.
- thristian 16y ago
  There's two pieces of text relevant: the "extended" description that introduces the site to people who don't already know it (such as search-engine users), and the "short" description that has the site's actual branding for people who are already familiar with it. In an ideal world, the <title> element would contain the short description, for bookmarking purposes, while the OpenSearch metadata would contain the extended description for search engines. It's kind of unfortunate that it's the opposite way around.
  - Xuzz 16y ago
    Thanks for saying that much better than me.
  - drivebyacct2 16y ago
    Use user-agent or javascript to do this. Seems like a good idea. I'd much rather see "HN | Startup Title Ju..." than "Hacker News | Startu..." in my tab. Especially if I'm trying to remember which HN tab I'm trying to get back to. (edit: actually "HN | Startup Title Junk" all fits in the tab with my font config)

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

gommm 16y ago

Very interesting, I didn't know about Opensearch. I'll spend my afternoon setting it up on my websites... Now if browsers and bookmarking service start using the Short name for the title bar, we will have reinvented the meta keywords tag :-)

there 16y ago

i had somewhat the opposite problem: my site was showing up on yahoo's search with a weird title, something i've never had as my title and certainly not anywhere in my html. i emailed them and they replied saying, "The title and description listed in the Yahoo! Search results can come from many different places, only one of which is the actual metadata in the page itself. The title and description can also come from descriptions on other websites which link to yours or directory services such as the Yahoo! Directory or other third party directory services." i had to add "noodp, noydir" to the meta robots tag on my site to prevent this from happening.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

poundy 16y ago

Bing does not change its title for airbnb http://www.bing.com/search?q=airbnb http://www.bing.com/search?q=airbnb Cool trick!

al_james 16y ago

Everybody who is diving off to take advantage of this trick, stop, its not true. The opensearch protocol describes the onsite search interface, so browsers (that support it) can add that search engine as an option. So, in effect, the opensearch link on the AirBnB sist is just saying "hey, if you want you can access the AirBnB search engine straight from your browser". It has absolutely nothing to do with how google (etc.) index and display your site in their search results. Instead, the AirBnB homepage comes up as 'AirBnB' (mostly) because it has a huge number of trusted incoming links containing hypertext 'AirBnB'. Google treats these as kind of 'alternative title text suggestions', and if you get enough they can override the actual page text in some cases. So the trick is (as always) to link build.

Aegean 16y ago

How do we increase the chance to get sitelinks to show up on google?

slig 16y ago
You have to the THE relevant authority on that keyword. FYI, you can check your sites on Google Webmasters tool.