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That particular statement stood out at me, juxtaposed right next to the statement that many Muslims are good Americans. At least 10% of respondents believe both

That particular statement stood out at me, juxtaposed right next to the statement that many Muslims are good Americans. At least 10% of respondents believe both that racism is dead and that few Muslims are good Americans! The “open borders” statement is also interesting. The Republican estimate is almost identical to the estimate for “abolish ICE.” This suggests that many respondents think these two statements are equivalent, a sentiment I’ve seen many times. But of course the idea there is to turn over its functions to another agency or create a new agency. The actual perception gap there is probably a lot larger due to this difference in understanding. Or consider “Donald Trump is a flawed person.” The listed perception gap for bat one is very small, with both estimate and reality being around 45%. Does that imply that 55% of Republicans think Trump is perfect? The vast majority of Republicans are Christians, and a core tenet of that religion is that Man is inherently flawed. It doesn’t add up. “Flawed” must have a totally different meaning here. It’s also unfortunate that it doesn’t include each group's estimate of itself. It would give us a much better sense of how significant this gap is if we could see that too.

finnthehuman 7y ago
>At least 10% of respondents believe both that racism is dead and that few Muslims are good Americans! Muslim isn’t a race.
- mikeash 7y ago
  How did I know someone would make this response. The sort of person who had an anti-Muslim bias is generally not the sort of person with this level of nuanced understanding of race, culture, and religion.
  - eCINKtrHLa 7y ago
    Is this a nuanced understanding of such sort of persons?
  - finnthehuman 7y ago
    Because it’s a common point of rhetorical contention? The facts of the matter are settled with proof by definition but the association between Islam and Arabs is a tarpit that’s useful or limiting depending on the team and the point being argued. I’m simply a fan of speaking as carefully and clearly as possible. I don’t mind linking ideas in a conversation but doing so up front and in the open. Not with a wink and nod that we can intuit “what they really think.” Just look at how much weasel wording you wrote and assumptions made when clarifiying.
    - mikeash 7y ago
      For someone who supposedly values clarity, I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. To make my own point as clearly as possible: I am certain that people who say Muslims aren’t good Americans are racists and are a disproof of their own statement if they say that racism doesn’t exist in America. If you have some counterargument to that then please go right ahead.
      - mistermann 7y ago
        I suspect the disagreement is one of terminology. Does the definition of racist that you are using extend to both religion and culture?
      - finnthehuman 7y ago
        >I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. I’m trying not to have a dog in the race while commenting on the meta.
  - Izkata 7y ago
    On the flipside, why dismiss a fact that completely explains the supposed contradiction?
    - mikeash 7y ago
      Because I don’t believe it actually explains it. I’m not actually an idiot. I know that “Muslim” isn’t a race. Replying with that is the sort of facile dismissal that makes the commenter feel smart but accomplishes nothing besides starting an argument.
      - harimau777 7y ago
        I do not believe that Muslims (either in America or otherwise) are bad people or a threat. In fact, my understanding is that because America's Muslim community is generally not disenfranchised it is generally more difficult for Islamist terrorists to radicalize people in America without getting caught than it is in other countries where the Islamic community has suffered greater discrimination. However in my experience, there are many people who do not believe that people from Muslim majority countries are evil but who do believe that Islam is an innately violent religion. At the same time, I do think it's possible that those beliefs are at least partially influenced by a, perhaps subconscious, fear of "the other".

finnthehuman 7y ago

>At least 10% of respondents believe both that racism is dead and that few Muslims are good Americans! Muslim isn’t a race.

mikeash 7y ago
How did I know someone would make this response. The sort of person who had an anti-Muslim bias is generally not the sort of person with this level of nuanced understanding of race, culture, and religion.
- eCINKtrHLa 7y ago
  Is this a nuanced understanding of such sort of persons?
- finnthehuman 7y ago
  Because it’s a common point of rhetorical contention? The facts of the matter are settled with proof by definition but the association between Islam and Arabs is a tarpit that’s useful or limiting depending on the team and the point being argued. I’m simply a fan of speaking as carefully and clearly as possible. I don’t mind linking ideas in a conversation but doing so up front and in the open. Not with a wink and nod that we can intuit “what they really think.” Just look at how much weasel wording you wrote and assumptions made when clarifiying.
  - mikeash 7y ago
    For someone who supposedly values clarity, I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. To make my own point as clearly as possible: I am certain that people who say Muslims aren’t good Americans are racists and are a disproof of their own statement if they say that racism doesn’t exist in America. If you have some counterargument to that then please go right ahead.
    - mistermann 7y ago
      I suspect the disagreement is one of terminology. Does the definition of racist that you are using extend to both religion and culture?
    - finnthehuman 7y ago
      >I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. I’m trying not to have a dog in the race while commenting on the meta.
- Izkata 7y ago
  On the flipside, why dismiss a fact that completely explains the supposed contradiction?
  - mikeash 7y ago
    Because I don’t believe it actually explains it. I’m not actually an idiot. I know that “Muslim” isn’t a race. Replying with that is the sort of facile dismissal that makes the commenter feel smart but accomplishes nothing besides starting an argument.
    - harimau777 7y ago
      I do not believe that Muslims (either in America or otherwise) are bad people or a threat. In fact, my understanding is that because America's Muslim community is generally not disenfranchised it is generally more difficult for Islamist terrorists to radicalize people in America without getting caught than it is in other countries where the Islamic community has suffered greater discrimination. However in my experience, there are many people who do not believe that people from Muslim majority countries are evil but who do believe that Islam is an innately violent religion. At the same time, I do think it's possible that those beliefs are at least partially influenced by a, perhaps subconscious, fear of "the other".