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Audi belongs to Volkswagen Group. That makes Volkswagen Group ultimately responsible for everything it ships, whether it's done internally, by Bosch, or by an o

by Xixi 7y ago

Audi belongs to Volkswagen Group. That makes Volkswagen Group ultimately responsible for everything it ships, whether it's done internally, by Bosch, or by an outsourcing firm in Elbonia.

rurban 7y ago
Now who's the owner of the Volkswagen Group? For some time there was a struggle between Audi and Porsche, but eventually Audi won. They are the mothership. Who's responsible? You still are of the impression that only VW uses this cheating device. Everyone is using it. Responsible for this device is Bosch.
- hef19898 7y ago
  Audi is, and was for a long time now, a 100% subsidiery from VW. The struggle you mention was one between Porsche SA and VW as much as it was one between the two Porsche family branches, Porsche and Piech. In the end VW kind of won and Porsche the automaker joined the VW group while the Porsche Holding became the (biggest) shareholder of VW group (including brands like Audi, Bugatti, Skoda, Seat, VW, Scania and MAN). Audi was a major supplier of Diesel engines for the whole group, especially the larger ones which also ended up in Porsche Cayennes. The smaller Diesel engines came AFAIK from VW. True, the software came from Bosch and can arguably be used for development purposes. The exact role of Bosch in all of this is still not clear. The only companies found to be using the Bosch supplied software as an illegal cheat device is VW so far. Maybe Mercedes did as well. BMW was, as if now, more or less cleared of illegal wrong doing. They still had to pay fines, so. Other car makers are, as far as we now today, "only" using the legal loop holes. Still shitty behavior but at least legal. PSA (Peugeot, Citroen, DS and as of last year Opel) are themselves a major Diesel engine supplier and while they paid fines as well, if I remember correctly, they didn't use defeat devices. EDIT: For clarity, PSA wasn't found to use defeat devices. They had to pay fines in France AFAIK.

by Xixi 7y ago

Audi belongs to Volkswagen Group. That makes Volkswagen Group ultimately responsible for everything it ships, whether it's done internally, by Bosch, or by an outsourcing firm in Elbonia.

rurban 7y ago

Now who's the owner of the Volkswagen Group? For some time there was a struggle between Audi and Porsche, but eventually Audi won. They are the mothership. Who's responsible? You still are of the impression that only VW uses this cheating device. Everyone is using it. Responsible for this device is Bosch.

hef19898 7y ago
Audi is, and was for a long time now, a 100% subsidiery from VW. The struggle you mention was one between Porsche SA and VW as much as it was one between the two Porsche family branches, Porsche and Piech. In the end VW kind of won and Porsche the automaker joined the VW group while the Porsche Holding became the (biggest) shareholder of VW group (including brands like Audi, Bugatti, Skoda, Seat, VW, Scania and MAN). Audi was a major supplier of Diesel engines for the whole group, especially the larger ones which also ended up in Porsche Cayennes. The smaller Diesel engines came AFAIK from VW. True, the software came from Bosch and can arguably be used for development purposes. The exact role of Bosch in all of this is still not clear. The only companies found to be using the Bosch supplied software as an illegal cheat device is VW so far. Maybe Mercedes did as well. BMW was, as if now, more or less cleared of illegal wrong doing. They still had to pay fines, so. Other car makers are, as far as we now today, "only" using the legal loop holes. Still shitty behavior but at least legal. PSA (Peugeot, Citroen, DS and as of last year Opel) are themselves a major Diesel engine supplier and while they paid fines as well, if I remember correctly, they didn't use defeat devices. EDIT: For clarity, PSA wasn't found to use defeat devices. They had to pay fines in France AFAIK.