4 ms·

Overall, I think this is a very interesting article and raises some good points. I did have some questions though. Why are "Traditional Liberals" part of the "

Overall, I think this is a very interesting article and raises some good points. I did have some questions though. Why are "Traditional Liberals" part of the "Exhausted Majority", but "Traditional Conservatives" part of the "Wings"? This is particularly confusing to me because the latter is the second largest of all groups. In fact, if I'm reading their chart correct, they seem to be claiming that anyone who identifies as "conservative" is part of the "wing"...

ceejayoz 7y ago
I would argue that "traditional" conservatism has been pushed to the outskirts of the current Republican party, in a way that isn't (currently) matched in the Democratic party. Folks like George Will, for example. https://reason.com/2016/06/25/george-will-leaves-the-republican-party/ https://reason.com/2016/06/25/george-will-leaves-the-republi...
- LyndsySimon 7y ago
  Hmm. My feelings on this are kind of muddled, mostly due to my own biases. I'm very much a libertarian (technically, an anarcho-capitalist) but feel much more affinity for the GOP than the Democrats. Objectively, I share about the same amount with each party but I have lived the vast majority of my life in very conservative communities. One of the things I didn't mention that bothered me about the article was that it excluded pretty much all of the minority factions in American politics, such as libertarians. I thought that the article was about Democrat vs. Republican, so that sorta made sense... but reading the hiddentribes.us site that it references, now I'm not so sure. Their categorization seems forced to me.
  - mLuby 7y ago
    Agreed. Where's my Grey Tribe at? Also would have been nice to see what Dems and Reps think of independents: are they viewed as centrist wafflers or unmoored radicals?
  - Izkata 7y ago
    Libertarians fall under Classical Liberals.
rootusrootus 7y ago
It sounds as though they derived the definition of "wing" from the perception gap measurement. I think calling everyone who is not in [that definition of] a wing "exhausted" is confusing.
- Zak 7y ago
  That doesn't match the graph shown, in which traditional conservatives have a slightly smaller perception gap than traditional liberals. The tribes come from another report from the same people, which says "[Traditional conservatives] are included as a wing segment because they are much closer in characteristics to the Devoted Conservatives than to the Exhausted Majority." I'll admit I've only skimmed the graphs (it's 110 pages long), but I'm not sure their data shows that clearly. https://hiddentribes.us/pdf/hidden_tribes_report.pdf https://hiddentribes.us/pdf/hidden_tribes_report.pdf
  - sampleinajar 7y ago
    I will add that in their methodology they asked the questions without asking for political self-identification, then grouped responders by answers and labeled the groups themselves. There is a consistent and significant response shift when going from traditional conservative to moderate, which I think correctly identifies the groups.
    - Zak 7y ago
      It's not the tribes people are questioning here, but the categorization of traditional conservatives as a "wing" and traditional liberals as "exhausted majority". Looking at a few more of their charts, I think I can see the case for it. On social issues, the gap between traditional conservatives and moderates is large, and the gap between traditional conservatives and devoted conservatives is quite small. On the other hand, the gap between traditional conservatives and moderates is large, while the gap between traditional liberals and passive liberals is much smaller.
      - sampleinajar 7y ago
Chazprime 7y ago
I think as the Overton Window has shifted leftwards, a lot of conservative values are landing at the fringes. At a micro level, I see a lot of people who identify as conservative, but have very progressive ideas about gay marriage, abortion, gun control, etc.

ceejayoz 7y ago

I would argue that "traditional" conservatism has been pushed to the outskirts of the current Republican party, in a way that isn't (currently) matched in the Democratic party. Folks like George Will, for example. https://reason.com/2016/06/25/george-will-leaves-the-republican-party/ https://reason.com/2016/06/25/george-will-leaves-the-republi...

LyndsySimon 7y ago
Hmm. My feelings on this are kind of muddled, mostly due to my own biases. I'm very much a libertarian (technically, an anarcho-capitalist) but feel much more affinity for the GOP than the Democrats. Objectively, I share about the same amount with each party but I have lived the vast majority of my life in very conservative communities. One of the things I didn't mention that bothered me about the article was that it excluded pretty much all of the minority factions in American politics, such as libertarians. I thought that the article was about Democrat vs. Republican, so that sorta made sense... but reading the hiddentribes.us site that it references, now I'm not so sure. Their categorization seems forced to me.
- mLuby 7y ago
  Agreed. Where's my Grey Tribe at? Also would have been nice to see what Dems and Reps think of independents: are they viewed as centrist wafflers or unmoored radicals?
- Izkata 7y ago
  Libertarians fall under Classical Liberals.

rootusrootus 7y ago

It sounds as though they derived the definition of "wing" from the perception gap measurement. I think calling everyone who is not in [that definition of] a wing "exhausted" is confusing.

Zak 7y ago
That doesn't match the graph shown, in which traditional conservatives have a slightly smaller perception gap than traditional liberals. The tribes come from another report from the same people, which says "[Traditional conservatives] are included as a wing segment because they are much closer in characteristics to the Devoted Conservatives than to the Exhausted Majority." I'll admit I've only skimmed the graphs (it's 110 pages long), but I'm not sure their data shows that clearly. https://hiddentribes.us/pdf/hidden_tribes_report.pdf https://hiddentribes.us/pdf/hidden_tribes_report.pdf
- sampleinajar 7y ago
  I will add that in their methodology they asked the questions without asking for political self-identification, then grouped responders by answers and labeled the groups themselves. There is a consistent and significant response shift when going from traditional conservative to moderate, which I think correctly identifies the groups.
  - Zak 7y ago
    It's not the tribes people are questioning here, but the categorization of traditional conservatives as a "wing" and traditional liberals as "exhausted majority". Looking at a few more of their charts, I think I can see the case for it. On social issues, the gap between traditional conservatives and moderates is large, and the gap between traditional conservatives and devoted conservatives is quite small. On the other hand, the gap between traditional conservatives and moderates is large, while the gap between traditional liberals and passive liberals is much smaller.
    - sampleinajar 7y ago

Chazprime 7y ago

I think as the Overton Window has shifted leftwards, a lot of conservative values are landing at the fringes. At a micro level, I see a lot of people who identify as conservative, but have very progressive ideas about gay marriage, abortion, gun control, etc.