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Actually, I would not limit it to cars and trucks. In my opinion, every consumer device that contains software should come with the source code for the software

Actually, I would not limit it to cars and trucks. In my opinion, every consumer device that contains software should come with the source code for the software that is installed by default (aka required to use it). But I doubt that any popular politician will have the guts to push such a bill against all the industry lobbies :-/

thfuran 7y ago
Should all consumer devices also be required to ship with complete schematics and manufacturing and assembly instructions?
- arendtio 7y ago
  Well, I don't think there is much value for consumers in manufacturing instructions, but assembly instructions could be useful to repair the devices. I am so tired of replacing devices just because you can't fix broken software that I see very few alternatives to forcing the manufacturers by law. Just to give an example: The Samsung Galaxy S3 was shipped with a firmware bug [1] that killed the memory occasionally (just the layout of some internal table so the hardware was completely okay). Sure, when it happened during the warranty period, it wasn't good for Samsung but afterward, you thought your hardware was broken when in fact just the software was broken (and a factory reset doesn't fix firmware internals). The reason we even know about that bug is that someone disassembled the firmware years after the device had a relevant market share. If the source code for the firmware would have been available, the bug probably would have been made public much earlier and a lot of broken devices would have been repairable. So I totally understand that manufacturers want to keep some things secret about their products but as a consumer, I feel betrayed when the devices I buy contain time bombs encoded within their software... And since the manufacturers fail to bring recent updates to the devices even during the warranty period, I think it might be a valid option to enable consumers to care for their devices. [1]: https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-8784-emmc_hacking_or_how_i_fixed_long-dead_galaxy_s3_phones https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-8784-emmc_hacking_or_how_i_fixed...
  - mindslight 7y ago
    FWIW my S4 (i9500) is bricked with symptoms consistent with this bug. When I get some spare cycles, I'm going to hook up the emmc chip directly and see what I can do (there are a few pictures on there I'm hoping to pull off). Suffice it to say, I completely agree with your comment!
  - thfuran 7y ago
    >Well, I don't think there is much value for consumers in manufacturing instructions, but assembly instructions could be useful to repair the devices I don't dispute that it'd be useful, but the standard for whether it should be statutorily mandated ought to be way higher than that. >The Samsung Galaxy S3 was shipped with a firmware bug [1] that killed the memory occasionally I don't really see that as fundamentally dissimilar to a single shoddy physical component bricking an otherwise perfectly functional device.
- undersuit 7y ago
  Yes? Why does the product have to just be the physical item? We're perfectly capable of redefining our expectations in other subjects, maybe a world where you buy the design and implementation isn't that far out.
- vageli 7y ago
  > Should all consumer devices also be required to ship with complete schematics and manufacturing and assembly instructions? Consumer devices _used to_ ship with schematics though...

thfuran 7y ago

Should all consumer devices also be required to ship with complete schematics and manufacturing and assembly instructions?

arendtio 7y ago
Well, I don't think there is much value for consumers in manufacturing instructions, but assembly instructions could be useful to repair the devices. I am so tired of replacing devices just because you can't fix broken software that I see very few alternatives to forcing the manufacturers by law. Just to give an example: The Samsung Galaxy S3 was shipped with a firmware bug [1] that killed the memory occasionally (just the layout of some internal table so the hardware was completely okay). Sure, when it happened during the warranty period, it wasn't good for Samsung but afterward, you thought your hardware was broken when in fact just the software was broken (and a factory reset doesn't fix firmware internals). The reason we even know about that bug is that someone disassembled the firmware years after the device had a relevant market share. If the source code for the firmware would have been available, the bug probably would have been made public much earlier and a lot of broken devices would have been repairable. So I totally understand that manufacturers want to keep some things secret about their products but as a consumer, I feel betrayed when the devices I buy contain time bombs encoded within their software... And since the manufacturers fail to bring recent updates to the devices even during the warranty period, I think it might be a valid option to enable consumers to care for their devices. [1]: https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-8784-emmc_hacking_or_how_i_fixed_long-dead_galaxy_s3_phones https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-8784-emmc_hacking_or_how_i_fixed...
- mindslight 7y ago
  FWIW my S4 (i9500) is bricked with symptoms consistent with this bug. When I get some spare cycles, I'm going to hook up the emmc chip directly and see what I can do (there are a few pictures on there I'm hoping to pull off). Suffice it to say, I completely agree with your comment!
- thfuran 7y ago
  >Well, I don't think there is much value for consumers in manufacturing instructions, but assembly instructions could be useful to repair the devices I don't dispute that it'd be useful, but the standard for whether it should be statutorily mandated ought to be way higher than that. >The Samsung Galaxy S3 was shipped with a firmware bug [1] that killed the memory occasionally I don't really see that as fundamentally dissimilar to a single shoddy physical component bricking an otherwise perfectly functional device.
undersuit 7y ago
Yes? Why does the product have to just be the physical item? We're perfectly capable of redefining our expectations in other subjects, maybe a world where you buy the design and implementation isn't that far out.
vageli 7y ago
> Should all consumer devices also be required to ship with complete schematics and manufacturing and assembly instructions? Consumer devices _used to_ ship with schematics though...