4 ms·

Know what's not on your list? 1) Increased government accountability 2) Any reduction in the military industrial complex 3) A completely ironic nobel peace

by eof 16y ago

Know what's not on your list? 1) Increased government accountability 2) Any reduction in the military industrial complex 3) A completely ironic nobel peace prize.

poet 16y ago
Of all the things to pick, you picked accountability and the reduction of the MIC as points of criticism?! I wonder what you think about Obama's Secretary of Defense, who is one of the most fiscally conservative SoDs in recent history, pushing for reductions in spending across the board [1]. Hell, he nuked F-22 production which is like THE symbol of the MIC in the US. I'm also curious what you think about Obama ordering that all DoD interrogations be filmed [2], the voluntary (and unprecedented) disclosure of vistor records to the White House [3], the extensive anti-lobiest legislation created by Obama [4,5,6], and the creaton of a national Declassification Center to speed up the release of documents to the public [7]. Also, how is the Nobel Obama's fault? He knew he didn't deserve it (hint: read between the lines of his acceptance speech). The idiotic committee put him in that situation and I don't think you'll hear anyone arguing it was actually deserved. Do you really expect people to engage in a conversation with you when you demonstrate such a clear lack of preparation and knowledge of the issues in question? It's a drain for all those involved. Dijkstra had something to say about this.... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gates#Fiscal_restraint http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gates#Fiscal_restraint [2] http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704314904575250882211122788.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870431490457525... [3] http://www.whitehouse.gov/VoluntaryDisclosure http://www.whitehouse.gov/VoluntaryDisclosure [4] http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/presidential-memorandum-lobbyists-agency-boards-and-commissions http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/presidential-memo... [5] http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/427/ban-lobbyist-gifts-to-executive-employees/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/427... [6] http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/07/27/ClosingLobbyistLoopholes/ http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/07/27/ClosingLobbyistL... [7] http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/420/create-a-national-declassification-center/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/420...
- waterlesscloud 16y ago
  Giving Obama credit for Robert Gates as Secretary Of Defense is overlooking a few things.
  - poet 16y ago
    What, like the fact that he didn't replace Gates like had been done with almost every single Secretary Of Defense in the past? Note how in recent years new presidents typically have appointed a new SoD [1]. Not replacing Gates was a de facto appointment. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Defense#List_of_Secretaries_of_Defense http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Defe...
    - CamperBob 16y ago
      Is it typical to replace a SecDef during wartime, though, if the SecDef is otherwise doing an OK job?
- AaronI 16y ago
  Gates, as SecDef, has been pushing for many of those changes since he took office in 2006. There's quite a bit to give Obama credit for, but Gates as SecDef is not one of them.
  - poet 16y ago
    Patently false. Gates introduced these changes in April of 2009: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/06/gates.budget.cuts/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/06/gates.budget.cuts/ind.... I'd be interested in any sort of proof that Gates was working on changes like this during the Bush years, because as I recall, programs like missile defense were being expanded not cut during that time.
- eof 16y ago
  Military Construction was 19% more in 2010 than 2009 at $24 billion [1]. Sure he nuked the F-22.. but we are still spending in 2011 $11.4B on F-35s, $5.4B on Virginia class submarine(+28%), and $3B on the Arleigh Burke class destroyer(+19%)[2]. You cannot pretend Obama isn't playing super nice with the Military-Industrial complex. Naming a dozen good to decent things Obama has done, with or without citations, doesn't come close to dimming the fact that Obama ran on a platform of huge sweeping change toward a more rational, peaceful world--and has in fact delivered on some token items but not even touched the core issues of imperliasism, state distributed misinformation, and a corporate-government marriage (it remains to be seen if Obama's anti-lobbying bill will be followed/enforced/effective). [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#By_title http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_S... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#Programs_spending_more_than_.241.5_billion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_S...

by eof 16y ago

Know what's not on your list? 1) Increased government accountability 2) Any reduction in the military industrial complex 3) A completely ironic nobel peace prize.

poet 16y ago

Of all the things to pick, you picked accountability and the reduction of the MIC as points of criticism?! I wonder what you think about Obama's Secretary of Defense, who is one of the most fiscally conservative SoDs in recent history, pushing for reductions in spending across the board [1]. Hell, he nuked F-22 production which is like THE symbol of the MIC in the US. I'm also curious what you think about Obama ordering that all DoD interrogations be filmed [2], the voluntary (and unprecedented) disclosure of vistor records to the White House [3], the extensive anti-lobiest legislation created by Obama [4,5,6], and the creaton of a national Declassification Center to speed up the release of documents to the public [7]. Also, how is the Nobel Obama's fault? He knew he didn't deserve it (hint: read between the lines of his acceptance speech). The idiotic committee put him in that situation and I don't think you'll hear anyone arguing it was actually deserved. Do you really expect people to engage in a conversation with you when you demonstrate such a clear lack of preparation and knowledge of the issues in question? It's a drain for all those involved. Dijkstra had something to say about this.... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gates#Fiscal_restraint http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gates#Fiscal_restraint [2] http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704314904575250882211122788.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870431490457525... [3] http://www.whitehouse.gov/VoluntaryDisclosure http://www.whitehouse.gov/VoluntaryDisclosure [4] http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/presidential-memorandum-lobbyists-agency-boards-and-commissions http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/presidential-memo... [5] http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/427/ban-lobbyist-gifts-to-executive-employees/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/427... [6] http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/07/27/ClosingLobbyistLoopholes/ http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/07/27/ClosingLobbyistL... [7] http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/420/create-a-national-declassification-center/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/420...

waterlesscloud 16y ago
Giving Obama credit for Robert Gates as Secretary Of Defense is overlooking a few things.
- poet 16y ago
  What, like the fact that he didn't replace Gates like had been done with almost every single Secretary Of Defense in the past? Note how in recent years new presidents typically have appointed a new SoD [1]. Not replacing Gates was a de facto appointment. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Defense#List_of_Secretaries_of_Defense http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Defe...
  - CamperBob 16y ago
    Is it typical to replace a SecDef during wartime, though, if the SecDef is otherwise doing an OK job?
AaronI 16y ago
Gates, as SecDef, has been pushing for many of those changes since he took office in 2006. There's quite a bit to give Obama credit for, but Gates as SecDef is not one of them.
- poet 16y ago
  Patently false. Gates introduced these changes in April of 2009: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/06/gates.budget.cuts/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/06/gates.budget.cuts/ind.... I'd be interested in any sort of proof that Gates was working on changes like this during the Bush years, because as I recall, programs like missile defense were being expanded not cut during that time.
eof 16y ago
Military Construction was 19% more in 2010 than 2009 at $24 billion [1]. Sure he nuked the F-22.. but we are still spending in 2011 $11.4B on F-35s, $5.4B on Virginia class submarine(+28%), and $3B on the Arleigh Burke class destroyer(+19%)[2]. You cannot pretend Obama isn't playing super nice with the Military-Industrial complex. Naming a dozen good to decent things Obama has done, with or without citations, doesn't come close to dimming the fact that Obama ran on a platform of huge sweeping change toward a more rational, peaceful world--and has in fact delivered on some token items but not even touched the core issues of imperliasism, state distributed misinformation, and a corporate-government marriage (it remains to be seen if Obama's anti-lobbying bill will be followed/enforced/effective). [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#By_title http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_S... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#Programs_spending_more_than_.241.5_billion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_S...