4 ms·

I would go one step further and claim that if you're not in some victim group nowadays, you just don't really "fit in". Be a victim instead and you will get all

I would go one step further and claim that if you're not in some victim group nowadays, you just don't really "fit in". Be a victim instead and you will get all the virtue signals. It's a devil's bargain, because being at the receiving end of virtue signals is actually pretty worthless, unless maybe you get to be a diversity hire. However, if you foster a victim identity you will underachieve because you will blame everything and everyone but yourself when things go wrong. In the past, males in particular would be told in no unclear terms that pretty much nobody cares to hear about their problems and that they need to sort themselves out as part of becoming adults. Today, they'll be given pills and a consultation with therapists whose education is probably nonsense.

shados 7y ago
> you just don't really "fit in" Not only do you not fit in, but you're not allowed to complain about anything/say anything, your problems don't matter, etc. Which is pretty problematic for people who have issues that aren't in the "approved list of things that currently matter".
- qzxvwt 7y ago
  i recently discovered that this approved list of things that currently matter actually has a name, it’s called the overton window: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
  - shados 7y ago
    Well, today I learnt something too! Thanks!
celrod 7y ago
People's beliefs about their responsibility and efficacy do have real impacts on their performance. Research has shown that whether or not someone's will power is limited is largely determined by whether or not they think it is. Basically, if you think will power is a limited resource, people will use that as an excuse to give up. One of my fellow graduate students failed 2 out of 3 classes last semester. He's repeated that will power is finite several times, ignoring me when I mention research suggesting otherwise. It's just too convenient of an excuse for him to say it was beyond his control, he had no choice but to play board games all day instead of studying and doing homework. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0956797610384745 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/09567976103847...
- bumby 7y ago
  Any idea how this compares to Daniel Kahnamans research on ego depletion? I only know of it from the laymens book "Thinking: Fast and Slow"
  - Analemma_ 7y ago
    Ego depletion has been badly bruised the replication crisis: http://urn.kb.se/resolve?urn=urn:nbn:se:liu:diva-132383 http://urn.kb.se/resolve?urn=urn:nbn:se:liu:diva-132383. At most the effect size is considerably weaker than first claimed and it probably doesn't actually exist at all.
    - celrod 7y ago
      On that note, it'd also be unwise to bet on the "ego depletion happens only to those who believe in it" finding from the paper I cited being replicate-able either -- it may be that the more broadly is no simple ego depletion effect effect at all. Psychology studies tend to be marred by the "piranha problem": you can't have a bunch of large effects determining behavior, without them eating each other.[1] We're immensely complicated, and make highly individual and nuanced decisions. There's just too much noise to try and boil things down to small patterns from simple studies. I believe (perhaps grounded weakly in largely anecdotal evidence) that people need to be able to fit their own behavior in some sort of personal narrative, or justify it in some way. Therefore, that the belief they "can't help" but do something they want to do (whether that be procrastinate or eat unhealthy food) will make it easier to justify, and thus the behaviors more likely. But there are as many different internal narratives, built on life experiences, as there are people. Making it hard to generalize surface level consequences between people. [1] https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2017/12/15/piranha-problem-social-psychology-behavioral-economics-button-pushing-model-science-eats/ https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2017/12/15/piranha-pr...
    - bumby 7y ago
      Your link doesn't work for me. I'd be interested in reading more if you have other sources. I guess even Nobel laureates aren't immune to the replication crisis...

shados 7y ago

> you just don't really "fit in" Not only do you not fit in, but you're not allowed to complain about anything/say anything, your problems don't matter, etc. Which is pretty problematic for people who have issues that aren't in the "approved list of things that currently matter".

qzxvwt 7y ago
i recently discovered that this approved list of things that currently matter actually has a name, it’s called the overton window: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
- shados 7y ago
  Well, today I learnt something too! Thanks!

celrod 7y ago

People's beliefs about their responsibility and efficacy do have real impacts on their performance. Research has shown that whether or not someone's will power is limited is largely determined by whether or not they think it is. Basically, if you think will power is a limited resource, people will use that as an excuse to give up. One of my fellow graduate students failed 2 out of 3 classes last semester. He's repeated that will power is finite several times, ignoring me when I mention research suggesting otherwise. It's just too convenient of an excuse for him to say it was beyond his control, he had no choice but to play board games all day instead of studying and doing homework. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0956797610384745 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/09567976103847...

bumby 7y ago
Any idea how this compares to Daniel Kahnamans research on ego depletion? I only know of it from the laymens book "Thinking: Fast and Slow"
- Analemma_ 7y ago
  Ego depletion has been badly bruised the replication crisis: http://urn.kb.se/resolve?urn=urn:nbn:se:liu:diva-132383 http://urn.kb.se/resolve?urn=urn:nbn:se:liu:diva-132383. At most the effect size is considerably weaker than first claimed and it probably doesn't actually exist at all.
  - celrod 7y ago
    On that note, it'd also be unwise to bet on the "ego depletion happens only to those who believe in it" finding from the paper I cited being replicate-able either -- it may be that the more broadly is no simple ego depletion effect effect at all. Psychology studies tend to be marred by the "piranha problem": you can't have a bunch of large effects determining behavior, without them eating each other.[1] We're immensely complicated, and make highly individual and nuanced decisions. There's just too much noise to try and boil things down to small patterns from simple studies. I believe (perhaps grounded weakly in largely anecdotal evidence) that people need to be able to fit their own behavior in some sort of personal narrative, or justify it in some way. Therefore, that the belief they "can't help" but do something they want to do (whether that be procrastinate or eat unhealthy food) will make it easier to justify, and thus the behaviors more likely. But there are as many different internal narratives, built on life experiences, as there are people. Making it hard to generalize surface level consequences between people. [1] https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2017/12/15/piranha-problem-social-psychology-behavioral-economics-button-pushing-model-science-eats/ https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2017/12/15/piranha-pr...
  - bumby 7y ago
    Your link doesn't work for me. I'd be interested in reading more if you have other sources. I guess even Nobel laureates aren't immune to the replication crisis...