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They are a lot more secure. Magstripe fraud is rampant, an accepted fact of life. Breaches of chip cards are extremely rare and not a fact of life. Or can you

They are a lot more secure. Magstripe fraud is rampant, an accepted fact of life. Breaches of chip cards are extremely rare and not a fact of life. Or can you back up this insinuation that smartcard chips that digitally sign transactions are no more secure than magstripes anyone can duplicate?

PhasmaFelis 7y ago
No one claimed they're as bad as magstripes, only that they are not 100% perfectly secure.
- orf 7y ago
  Nobody claimed they where 100% secure, at any point in this thread, during the development of the technology or during the rollout.
  - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
    Then we're all agreed, and I have no idea what repolfx is so indignant about.
- repolfx 7y ago
  But if chip cards are much, much more secure than before and chip breaches are negligable (which they are), then why is the default presumption of fraud being the user's fault unfair? Users can and do write their PINs down, give them to other people and engage in other unsafe practices. That's by far the most common way chip cards are breached: social engineering. I think there's a limit to how much liability system vendors should be expected to take. Insisting on all-corporate liability all the time, even for cases that are basically unsolvable like users deliberately giving away credentials, just socialises the cost of careless behaviour on all card users. Why bother upgrading security at all, in that case?
novok 7y ago
You can duplicate chip & pin EMV cards too. They are prone to fraud just like mag stripe cards. https://www.consumerismcommentary.com/chip-credit-cards-fraud/ https://www.consumerismcommentary.com/chip-credit-cards-frau...
- judge2020 7y ago
  I wonder if full "phone only" cards (like the Apple Card but no physical card at all) will become available as an opt-in service at banks at one point, it seems plausible in maybe 10-20 years as Apple/Google pay become more widespread.
- londons_explore 7y ago
  Only when badly designed. They're theoretically secure (ie. with cryptography), even if practically many can be encouraged to leak their secrets...
  - novok 7y ago
    There is theory, and then there is what is actually out there. The fact that something that is actually insecure doesn't have fraud protection is the wrong thing.

PhasmaFelis 7y ago

No one claimed they're as bad as magstripes, only that they are not 100% perfectly secure.

orf 7y ago
Nobody claimed they where 100% secure, at any point in this thread, during the development of the technology or during the rollout.
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago
  Then we're all agreed, and I have no idea what repolfx is so indignant about.
repolfx 7y ago
But if chip cards are much, much more secure than before and chip breaches are negligable (which they are), then why is the default presumption of fraud being the user's fault unfair? Users can and do write their PINs down, give them to other people and engage in other unsafe practices. That's by far the most common way chip cards are breached: social engineering. I think there's a limit to how much liability system vendors should be expected to take. Insisting on all-corporate liability all the time, even for cases that are basically unsolvable like users deliberately giving away credentials, just socialises the cost of careless behaviour on all card users. Why bother upgrading security at all, in that case?

novok 7y ago

You can duplicate chip & pin EMV cards too. They are prone to fraud just like mag stripe cards. https://www.consumerismcommentary.com/chip-credit-cards-fraud/ https://www.consumerismcommentary.com/chip-credit-cards-frau...

judge2020 7y ago
I wonder if full "phone only" cards (like the Apple Card but no physical card at all) will become available as an opt-in service at banks at one point, it seems plausible in maybe 10-20 years as Apple/Google pay become more widespread.
londons_explore 7y ago
Only when badly designed. They're theoretically secure (ie. with cryptography), even if practically many can be encouraged to leak their secrets...
- novok 7y ago
  There is theory, and then there is what is actually out there. The fact that something that is actually insecure doesn't have fraud protection is the wrong thing.