4 ms·

Build. More. Places. To. Live.

by TSiege 7y ago

Loughla 7y ago
Move. Somewhere. Else. I'm not trying to be hateful, but those are both very real solutions.
- mrguyorama 7y ago
  I had to move 5 hours south to get a job. Funny thing, that means living in the most expensive city of the State. The alternative was basically eternal welfare, like the rest of the north of the state
- maxerickson 7y ago
  The US has terrible zoning. Somewhere else often isn't any different.
- JustSomeNobody 7y ago
  Tried.Can't.Find.Work.And.Managers.Want.Butts.In.Seats.So.Remote.Is.Out.
- enraged_camel 7y ago
  Your solution isn't very realistic at all, because good jobs in most industries tend to be consolidated in specific geographic areas.
- human20190310 7y ago
  Or move in next door, tear down the house, build a 4-unit, and rent out three of them. If the influence of NIMBY really was limited to the BY (backyard) these issues would be moot. The frustration is that owners are attempting to control land that they did not purchase.
  - BeetleB 7y ago
    >Or move in next door, tear down the house, build a 4-unit, and rent out three of them. Depends on zoning laws. In my state, this was not allowed until legislation came about this year allowing it. You could not have a multifamily property in a single family residential neighborhood - not even a duplex.
    - human20190310 7y ago
      I'm beginning to think this issue might self-correct. As more properties end up being owned by investors, the voting power of owners (as a category) is commensurately lower, since a single investor usually owns multiple properties, yet gets only one vote. As the number of renters increases, they can support zoning changes that add supply and reduce their costs.
- TSiege 7y ago
  So instead of building more places for people to live where they want to/jobs are available we should just have mass migration out of economic centers. Got it.
- Balgair 7y ago
  Come on, try looking for work these days in the middle of the country, try sending your kids to school in the middle of the country. No, not HN/techy work, and no, not a job that has no benefits. A real job that will pay a mortagage. They just don't exist. EXP: Get a clerk job in Norman, OK. Here's the indeed link [0]. Medical clerks are about as an average a job as you're going to find [1]. Look at that pay, it's $12 an hour, or ~$25k/year. Granted, these kinds of jobs come with benefits, so that is really nice. What kind of house can you get with the two of you working at ~$50/year? At best, you can get a $1000/mo mortgage, or a $150k house. Here's what those houses look like [2]. All looks pretty alright, yeah? Think you can make it like that, yeah? Well, the poverty rate there is 60% [3]. Yeah, 2 of 3 random people in Norman, OK are making no more than ~$26k/year. So where is the disconnect? If you get an average job in an average place and get an average house in your price range, everything should be roses, right? But the overt majority of people in an average place in the country are making no more than ~$500 per week. Look, everyone knows that Norman OK is not a place you want to live or try to thrive in. Oklahoma's educational system is ranked down there with Mississippi [4]. Ranked 24th is Ohio where they kicked creationism out just 2 years ago [5]. Moving somewhere else is NOT a realistic solution. You know that. [0] https://www.indeed.com/q-Clerical-l-Norman,-OK-jobs.html https://www.indeed.com/q-Clerical-l-Norman,-OK-jobs.html [1] https://www.aol.com/2010/11/11/americas-most-popular-jobs/ https://www.aol.com/2010/11/11/americas-most-popular-jobs/ [2] https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Norman-OK/pmf,pf_pt/33136_rid/100000-200000_price/381-763_mp/globalrelevanceex_sort/35.394087,-97.128068,35.099686,-97.597046_rect/10_zm/ https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Norman-OK/pmf,pf_pt/33... [3] https://www.towncharts.com/Oklahoma/Economy/Norman-city-OK-Economy-data.html https://www.towncharts.com/Oklahoma/Economy/Norman-city-OK-E... Look at the charts near the bottom that include the non-working poor, working poor, and non-labor force poor. [4] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oklahoma https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oklahoma [5] https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/creationism-will-no-longer-be-taught-in-ohio-schools https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/creationism-...

Build. More. Places. To. Live.

by TSiege 7y ago

Build. More. Places. To. Live.

Loughla 7y ago

Move. Somewhere. Else. I'm not trying to be hateful, but those are both very real solutions.

mrguyorama 7y ago
I had to move 5 hours south to get a job. Funny thing, that means living in the most expensive city of the State. The alternative was basically eternal welfare, like the rest of the north of the state
maxerickson 7y ago
The US has terrible zoning. Somewhere else often isn't any different.
JustSomeNobody 7y ago
Tried.Can't.Find.Work.And.Managers.Want.Butts.In.Seats.So.Remote.Is.Out.
enraged_camel 7y ago
Your solution isn't very realistic at all, because good jobs in most industries tend to be consolidated in specific geographic areas.
human20190310 7y ago
Or move in next door, tear down the house, build a 4-unit, and rent out three of them. If the influence of NIMBY really was limited to the BY (backyard) these issues would be moot. The frustration is that owners are attempting to control land that they did not purchase.
- BeetleB 7y ago
  >Or move in next door, tear down the house, build a 4-unit, and rent out three of them. Depends on zoning laws. In my state, this was not allowed until legislation came about this year allowing it. You could not have a multifamily property in a single family residential neighborhood - not even a duplex.
  - human20190310 7y ago
    I'm beginning to think this issue might self-correct. As more properties end up being owned by investors, the voting power of owners (as a category) is commensurately lower, since a single investor usually owns multiple properties, yet gets only one vote. As the number of renters increases, they can support zoning changes that add supply and reduce their costs.
TSiege 7y ago
So instead of building more places for people to live where they want to/jobs are available we should just have mass migration out of economic centers. Got it.
Balgair 7y ago
Come on, try looking for work these days in the middle of the country, try sending your kids to school in the middle of the country. No, not HN/techy work, and no, not a job that has no benefits. A real job that will pay a mortagage. They just don't exist. EXP: Get a clerk job in Norman, OK. Here's the indeed link [0]. Medical clerks are about as an average a job as you're going to find [1]. Look at that pay, it's $12 an hour, or ~$25k/year. Granted, these kinds of jobs come with benefits, so that is really nice. What kind of house can you get with the two of you working at ~$50/year? At best, you can get a $1000/mo mortgage, or a $150k house. Here's what those houses look like [2]. All looks pretty alright, yeah? Think you can make it like that, yeah? Well, the poverty rate there is 60% [3]. Yeah, 2 of 3 random people in Norman, OK are making no more than ~$26k/year. So where is the disconnect? If you get an average job in an average place and get an average house in your price range, everything should be roses, right? But the overt majority of people in an average place in the country are making no more than ~$500 per week. Look, everyone knows that Norman OK is not a place you want to live or try to thrive in. Oklahoma's educational system is ranked down there with Mississippi [4]. Ranked 24th is Ohio where they kicked creationism out just 2 years ago [5]. Moving somewhere else is NOT a realistic solution. You know that. [0] https://www.indeed.com/q-Clerical-l-Norman,-OK-jobs.html https://www.indeed.com/q-Clerical-l-Norman,-OK-jobs.html [1] https://www.aol.com/2010/11/11/americas-most-popular-jobs/ https://www.aol.com/2010/11/11/americas-most-popular-jobs/ [2] https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Norman-OK/pmf,pf_pt/33136_rid/100000-200000_price/381-763_mp/globalrelevanceex_sort/35.394087,-97.128068,35.099686,-97.597046_rect/10_zm/ https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Norman-OK/pmf,pf_pt/33... [3] https://www.towncharts.com/Oklahoma/Economy/Norman-city-OK-Economy-data.html https://www.towncharts.com/Oklahoma/Economy/Norman-city-OK-E... Look at the charts near the bottom that include the non-working poor, working poor, and non-labor force poor. [4] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oklahoma https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oklahoma [5] https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/creationism-will-no-longer-be-taught-in-ohio-schools https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/creationism-...