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The fences and guards have absolutely helped. When I first started the commute we had something like 12-14 deaths one year. Since those fences went up it’s drop

The fences and guards have absolutely helped. When I first started the commute we had something like 12-14 deaths one year. Since those fences went up it’s dropped dramatically.

sametmax 7y ago
It helped the trains, not the kids.
- codezero 7y ago
  That’s too bad. I hoped they added programs at the schools as well as guards. Did that not happen?
  - forgottenpass 7y ago
    School anti-suicide (or any of their social intervention) programs mostly accomplish teaching the targeted groups to blend into the crowd and avoid attending the school's hamfisted intervention programs. But maybe that's the point.
- antisemiotic 7y ago
  I imagine it helped the train drivers a lot too.
close04 7y ago
Preventing suicide via one method doesn't turn people away from suicide, just from that particular method.
- codezero 7y ago
  It sounds like "it's complicated" is a better way of thinking about suicide prevention. It's pretty hard to measure a localized "it's no longer happening," when measures for suicide prevention are put in place. Things effective one place, are less effective in others because of "sociocultural" reasons [0], but there is some evidence to suggest denying people access to the tools to commit suicide, and reducing media coverage (social contagion/clustering) seem to help. With that said, yes, you are right, just changing one thing doesn't do much, there needs to be a bigger picture approach that addresses many factors. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414695/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414695/
- enraged_camel 7y ago
  My understanding is that there are two types of suicides: premeditated ones, and spur-of-the-moment ones. Putting up fences next to train tracks won't do much for the former, but I suspect it will reduce the frequency of the latter (which it did, in this case).
  - close04 7y ago
    > (which it did, in this case). It reduced the frequency of "suicide by train". But suicides overall went up 30% from what the article states. It's more likely that the people who could no longer use this method as a spur of the moment thing just chose something else. Transportation related suicide accounts for 0.4% (or ~170 in 2012) of suicides in the US. [0] "Fall", another spur of the moment method, accounts for 6 times as much. You can only build so many fences. As someone with a bit of experience on the topic I can tell you that when suicidal ideation reaches the tipping point you need more than a fence to stop them. But I'm not saying "don't put up the fence". I just found GP's remark that "The fences and guards have absolutely helped" either a bit cynical or unrealistically optimistic. The only thing we can say with certainty is that it helped keep the trains going. I'm not sure it definitively saved lives. For that we need to do a lot more than build a fence... [0] http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/us-methods-suicide http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/us-methods-suicide
- mercutio2 7y ago
  This seems intuitively obvious, but all the research I’ve read suggests the opposite: a very sizable fraction of people with suicidal ideation will not commit suicide if given even marginally fewer opportunities to do so.

The fences and guards have absolutely helped. When I first started the commute we had something like 12-14 deaths one year. Since those fences went up it’s dropped dramatically.

sametmax 7y ago

It helped the trains, not the kids.

codezero 7y ago
That’s too bad. I hoped they added programs at the schools as well as guards. Did that not happen?
- forgottenpass 7y ago
  School anti-suicide (or any of their social intervention) programs mostly accomplish teaching the targeted groups to blend into the crowd and avoid attending the school's hamfisted intervention programs. But maybe that's the point.
antisemiotic 7y ago
I imagine it helped the train drivers a lot too.

close04 7y ago

Preventing suicide via one method doesn't turn people away from suicide, just from that particular method.

codezero 7y ago
It sounds like "it's complicated" is a better way of thinking about suicide prevention. It's pretty hard to measure a localized "it's no longer happening," when measures for suicide prevention are put in place. Things effective one place, are less effective in others because of "sociocultural" reasons [0], but there is some evidence to suggest denying people access to the tools to commit suicide, and reducing media coverage (social contagion/clustering) seem to help. With that said, yes, you are right, just changing one thing doesn't do much, there needs to be a bigger picture approach that addresses many factors. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414695/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414695/
enraged_camel 7y ago
My understanding is that there are two types of suicides: premeditated ones, and spur-of-the-moment ones. Putting up fences next to train tracks won't do much for the former, but I suspect it will reduce the frequency of the latter (which it did, in this case).
- close04 7y ago
  > (which it did, in this case). It reduced the frequency of "suicide by train". But suicides overall went up 30% from what the article states. It's more likely that the people who could no longer use this method as a spur of the moment thing just chose something else. Transportation related suicide accounts for 0.4% (or ~170 in 2012) of suicides in the US. [0] "Fall", another spur of the moment method, accounts for 6 times as much. You can only build so many fences. As someone with a bit of experience on the topic I can tell you that when suicidal ideation reaches the tipping point you need more than a fence to stop them. But I'm not saying "don't put up the fence". I just found GP's remark that "The fences and guards have absolutely helped" either a bit cynical or unrealistically optimistic. The only thing we can say with certainty is that it helped keep the trains going. I'm not sure it definitively saved lives. For that we need to do a lot more than build a fence... [0] http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/us-methods-suicide http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/us-methods-suicide
mercutio2 7y ago
This seems intuitively obvious, but all the research I’ve read suggests the opposite: a very sizable fraction of people with suicidal ideation will not commit suicide if given even marginally fewer opportunities to do so.