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People who reason like that sound to me as though they have built all these mind structures, thought patterns and beliefs, just in order to "deal with" and get

People who reason like that sound to me as though they have built all these mind structures, thought patterns and beliefs, just in order to "deal with" and get around the (certainly horrendous) fact that they have little time, that they will die really soon, that people they love will die, and they can do nothing about it. This is a reasonable thing to do. When there was no practical way to actually extend life (not by 2 years by excercising all the time) - yes, people had to deal with that. These facts were hard to process emotionally, and people needed these reasons and made up stories about the obviously preposterous presupposition that "we don't really want to live longer, that's not what life is about". Basically those people gave up all hope and made their internal emotional world support that, support them in this hard position. It was needed. But I think it is time to let go of that. The times are changing and it looks like we can actually extend the lifespan. Maybe not this year, maybe not even this decade - sure. But soon. Don't let old beliefs stand in the way of progress. It has never worked and only creates unnecessary strain on the people holding those beliefs. The world is moving in that direction and there is little you can do to stop it. And for a good reason. Saying "we don't need/want to live longer" is neither rational nor truthful.

lm28469 7y ago
> Don't let old beliefs stand in the way of progress. That's a very dangerous thing though. Humans are very good at destroying things, not so much as replacing them with good alternatives. Religion is the prime example, "God is dead", and what do people have left ? Pure individualism, narcissism, egotism, lack of communities, lack of purpose; these are the new building blocks of our societies. And it's very well documented; loneliness epidemic, depression epidemic, people literally dying of sins, gluttony, sloth, ... What good is it to live longer if it's still in the same degenerate ways ? Work more ? Consume more ? If you can't live a fulfilling life in ~80 years you won't do better with 120. The analogy of a kid always wanting more, no matter the consequences, really holds up. Life is a really fucking long time if you throw away the bs we all take part in. And again, Seneca sounds on point to me. No matter how long you live, if you're not able to enjoy this gift, 50, 150, 250 years won't be enough. > What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed. Whatever years lie behind us are in death's hands.
- Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
  > What good is it to live longer if it's still in the same degenerate ways ? Work more ? Consume more ? If you can't live a fulfilling life in ~80 years you won't do better with 120. The analogy of a kid always wanting more, no matter the consequences, really holds up. If you don't have answers to those questions for yourself, it sounds like you don't have a working spirituality in your system.. In that case yes, it is easy to think "why live longer", because the underlying question for such a person is really "why live at all?". This is certainly an important problem in the west and a lot of work is being done on it, but it is not directly related to the longevity research, they are different areas. The problem in that case is not longevity or health, it is the spiritual questions. Earlier, religions were answering those questions for many people. Today, many of them struggle yes. But it has nothing to do with longevity. Guiding any choices in the technological advancements and increasing physical human life quality because someone does not see the point in everything is not very wise at least, because by extension that argument would work for any other technological advancement we are doing. Why make new computers? Why make electric cars? Why fight pollution? Why go to the moon? "Why solve the world hunger, those people will just start consuming and working mindlessly, there is no point, etc.". To me personally I have tons of answers for those questions, and it's not consumption or "work"(whatever people mean by that). In any case I wish for everyone to find their own spirituality of course, which might be a religion (buddhism for example is doing just fine, just as it has been for many more thousands of years than even christianity), or some more modern way of acquiring spirituality like modern spiritual teachers, retreats, meditation, psychedelic experiences, asketism, some philosophies, etc. Those things do not exist for no reason, they are exactly the west's more effective answers to obsolete religions. They serve the same purpose. But this is not a question of the longevity field, why mix up the two? > Life is a really fucking long time if you throw away the bs we all take part in. And again, Seneca sounds on point to me. No matter how long you live, if you're not able to enjoy this gift, 50, 150, 250 years won't be enough. Again, no shit. But if you can enjoy 1 year, you will enjoy the 100 years so much more as well. This argument goes both ways.

lm28469 7y ago

> Don't let old beliefs stand in the way of progress. That's a very dangerous thing though. Humans are very good at destroying things, not so much as replacing them with good alternatives. Religion is the prime example, "God is dead", and what do people have left ? Pure individualism, narcissism, egotism, lack of communities, lack of purpose; these are the new building blocks of our societies. And it's very well documented; loneliness epidemic, depression epidemic, people literally dying of sins, gluttony, sloth, ... What good is it to live longer if it's still in the same degenerate ways ? Work more ? Consume more ? If you can't live a fulfilling life in ~80 years you won't do better with 120. The analogy of a kid always wanting more, no matter the consequences, really holds up. Life is a really fucking long time if you throw away the bs we all take part in. And again, Seneca sounds on point to me. No matter how long you live, if you're not able to enjoy this gift, 50, 150, 250 years won't be enough. > What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed. Whatever years lie behind us are in death's hands.

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
> What good is it to live longer if it's still in the same degenerate ways ? Work more ? Consume more ? If you can't live a fulfilling life in ~80 years you won't do better with 120. The analogy of a kid always wanting more, no matter the consequences, really holds up. If you don't have answers to those questions for yourself, it sounds like you don't have a working spirituality in your system.. In that case yes, it is easy to think "why live longer", because the underlying question for such a person is really "why live at all?". This is certainly an important problem in the west and a lot of work is being done on it, but it is not directly related to the longevity research, they are different areas. The problem in that case is not longevity or health, it is the spiritual questions. Earlier, religions were answering those questions for many people. Today, many of them struggle yes. But it has nothing to do with longevity. Guiding any choices in the technological advancements and increasing physical human life quality because someone does not see the point in everything is not very wise at least, because by extension that argument would work for any other technological advancement we are doing. Why make new computers? Why make electric cars? Why fight pollution? Why go to the moon? "Why solve the world hunger, those people will just start consuming and working mindlessly, there is no point, etc.". To me personally I have tons of answers for those questions, and it's not consumption or "work"(whatever people mean by that). In any case I wish for everyone to find their own spirituality of course, which might be a religion (buddhism for example is doing just fine, just as it has been for many more thousands of years than even christianity), or some more modern way of acquiring spirituality like modern spiritual teachers, retreats, meditation, psychedelic experiences, asketism, some philosophies, etc. Those things do not exist for no reason, they are exactly the west's more effective answers to obsolete religions. They serve the same purpose. But this is not a question of the longevity field, why mix up the two? > Life is a really fucking long time if you throw away the bs we all take part in. And again, Seneca sounds on point to me. No matter how long you live, if you're not able to enjoy this gift, 50, 150, 250 years won't be enough. Again, no shit. But if you can enjoy 1 year, you will enjoy the 100 years so much more as well. This argument goes both ways.