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Einstein's Science Defied Nationalism and Crossed Borders
- pojntfx 7y agoFascinating. The entire article doesn't even bother to include the fact that Einstein was a socialist. He didn't want to "cross borders" - he wanted to remove them, which is the sole sane solution.
- hugh4life 7y agoHow does a democracy work without borders? Without borders there is no demos.
- anarchy8 7y agoThe "demos" or people would be any freely associating group of people, which isn't necessarily defined by borders.
- blancheneige 7y ago>The "demos" or people would be any freely associating group of people So like what's been happening for the last 2000 years and resulted in our current borders?
- the-dude 7y agoMultinationals
- aikah 7y agoIt would end up the same as today, ultimately, nations would emerge. Don't you think "free association" is where civilization began at first place? And you expect a different outcome? Who would protect "free associates" from the violence of others who don't buy into that system? Utopia like Anarchy severely ignore the "human nature" factor.
- kiliantics 7y agoIt's unknown how civilisations began but they were most likely not formed through "free association" but rather by violent extortion. It's thought that pastoral communities being regularly robbed by nomadic groups eventually developed a relationship of paying tribute to one group in return for protection against others. Or, put differently, one group of bandits will fight off the others to get exclusive pillaging access to some farming communities. This tribute system is believed to have then developed into a taxation system. In no way are modern nation states a form of "free association". I cannot freely choose to not pay taxes if I am born in a nation, nor can I freely choose to join another nation if I accept their principles. Your predictable and very unoriginal use of the "human nature" argument is in fact the ignorant position. It completely ignores the significantly larger number of humans throughout history (and including today) that have lived in freely associating relationships that in no way resemble the modern nation state or earlier forms of civilisation.
- aikah 7y agoIt's very well known how civilization began. You cannot find a single example of what you deem "free association" that is not currently defended directly or indirectly by an army. The irony of your statement is that while you called me ignorant you said the exact same thing as I said in your first paragraph. Then you try to back pedal to make a "point" in the last one by giving zero examples of your "larger number of humans throughout history (and including today) that have lived in freely associating relationships. And next time refrain from calling other people who disagree with whatever ideology you believe in as "ignorant", it qualifies you as a troll.
- maehwasu 7y agoYou quite literally just independently re-derived the concept of "border" in the same sentence that you rejected it.
- raverbashing 7y agoWhen was socialism ever about democracy? For examples of how order is maintained, just see the Tiananmen Square protests
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- opportune 7y agoHow would it be any different than if there was just one country? Borders in the US don't seem to prevent democracy (or something close to it) from working
- deogeo 7y agoBorders and socialism seem perfectly compatible to me. Or do you mean that he was both a socialist, and against borders?
- anarchy8 7y agoSocialism at the time was inherently international.
- deogeo 7y agoThat's not the same as against borders - see e.g. international trade, or tourism. Socialism today seems to agree with borders ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-k6qOfXz0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-k6qOfXz0 ), and back then, there was national socialism...
- pvg 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_One_Country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_One_Country
- Der_Einzige 7y agoEinstein was explicitly anti stalinist and advocates globalism in his work "Why Socialism" You can read it online
- pvg 7y agoI don't understand how this is related to my comment and the comment I'm replying to, both of which you presumably just read online.
- clydethefrog 7y agoLink to the piece: https://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/ https://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/
- ptaipale 7y ago
- mehrzad 7y agoWhile I agree with you that socialism is inherently against borders, I'm not sure Einstein ever said so.
- Emma_Goldman 7y agoHe argued in favour of a supranational security system in 1945: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1947/11/atomic-war-or-peace/305443/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1947/11/atomic-...
- netmonk 7y agoIt's not because law of physics are universals, that the political point of view of Einstein are universal. Moreover, when you look are how many nationnal socialist scientists from Germany were transfered in America after ww2, and how America benefited until today from them, tends to discredit any kind of authoritarian argument that political point of view of a physics specialist is more relevant than the one from my jobless neighbour.
- PavlovsCat 7y agoNo political views of Einstein are even mentioned, they're kinda besides the point here. Even if they weren't, many things Einstein said or wrote aren't considered insightful because he was "good at being a physicist", but because they are valuable and insightful in their own right, and often beautifully put. There should be some kind of Godwin's law for mentioning Einstein, and the "just because he was a good physicist doesn't mean the thing I'm not actually going to address is correct" stuff showing up.
- netmonk 7y agoThis is a very common habit of our modern propaganda, to use the position of an expert in very narrow field as an authoritarian position to promote political agenda... Moreover, dead cannot speak, and it's very easier to use them for this.
- PavlovsCat 7y ago> This is a very common habit of our modern propaganda, to use the position of an expert in very narrow field as an authoritarian position to promote political agenda Examples? I can't think of any. But I know the article isn't one, so why even bring up what is supposedly "common"?
- toufka 7y agoExcept in this case, Einstein very much was a philosopher in addition to a physicist. His philosophical writings weren’t as stand-out as his physics, but they weren’t shabby either. He was offered the job of the first leader of Israel, not because he was a great physicist, but because he thought deeply about philosophical and political issues. He did write quite a bit in his own contemplated voice in these subjects. It is true though that a reinterpretation of his voice can become problematic.
- lsniddy 7y agoEinstein married his 1st cousin, I bet he loved socialism.
- GorgeRonde 7y agoAnd he abandoned his schizophrenic son.
- redm 7y agoNationalism is an extension of tribalism which is inherited in human beings, it's in our DNA [1]. We, as a species, may override our instincts to do what we feel is better for humanity, but then again humanity is just a larger tribe. [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/life-is-trip/201208/you-are-tribal-person https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/life-is-trip/201208/... [2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-emotional-footprint/201802/belonging-is-our-blessing-tribalism-is-our-burden https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/our-emotional-footpr...
- PavlovsCat 7y ago> As man advances in civilisation, and small tribes are united into larger communities, the simplest reason would tell each individual that he ought to extend his social instincts and sympathies to all the members of the same nation, though personally unknown to him. This point being once reached, there is only an artificial barrier to prevent his sympathies extending to the men of all nations and races. If, indeed, such men are separated from him by great differences in appearance or habits, experience unfortunately shews us how long it is, before we look at them as our fellow-creatures. [...] This virtue, one of the noblest with which man is endowed, seems to arise incidentally from our sympathies becoming more tender and more widely diffused, until they are extended to all sentient beings. As soon as this virtue is honoured and practised by some few men, it spreads through instruction and example to the young, and eventually becomes incorporated in public opinion. -- Charles Darwin, "The Descent of Man" (1871) > A human being is a part of a whole, called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. -- Albert Einstein
- deogeo 7y ago> It has been asserted that the ear of man alone possesses a lobule; but 'a rudiment of it is found in the gorilla' and, as I hear from Prof. Preyer, it is not rarely absent in the negro. > The sense of smell is of the highest importance to the greater number of mammals--to some, as the ruminants, in warning them of danger; to others, as the Carnivora, in finding their prey; to others, again, as the wild boar, for both purposes combined. But the sense of smell is of extremely slight service, if any, even to the dark coloured races of men, in whom it is much more highly developed than in the white and civilised races. -- Charles Darwin, "The Descent of Man" (1871) > It would be a pity if these Chinese supplant all other races. For the likes of us the mere thought is unspeakably dreary. -- Albert Einstein
- mobilemidget 7y agojust wondering out loud, but one can’t defy nationalism without crossing borders no?
- muckrakerz 7y agohttps://www.haaretz.com/jewish/what-was-einstein-s-relationship-to-judaism-and-zionism-1.5425826 https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/what-was-einstein-s-relations... Einstein views were conflicted. He was very pro-nationalist where it was a Jewish concern. He felt this was forced, but that doesn't change his position.
- boringuser1 7y agoGood for me not for thee.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ralphc 7y agoTime to pull out this chestnut. I start out as a physics major, this is Georgia Tech in 1980, 1981. In my classical mechanics class my german physics professor said that "of course we weren't taught relativity because it was considered Jewish physics". That brought a round of chuckles until we realized he wasn't kidding.