3 ms·

Maybe most of you forgot the previous articles. When V author was here, he and his original site promised all sorts of huge claims that teams of pro's had eithe

Maybe most of you forgot the previous articles. When V author was here, he and his original site promised all sorts of huge claims that teams of pro's had either failed to pull off or barely pulled off. Not just excited about future work: claimed he already had a lot done. He talked about a few things as work in progress that would be out in a few months as if he had most of it done. Later, after much debate, he said he was just getting started on a few of those. Bigger claims remained on the website. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19086712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19086712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19403271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19403271 So, cadey on Lobste.rs was really excited about the V language hoping it was delivering on its claims. She usually submits good stuff, too. She submitted his repo when it went up, started playing with it, found all kinds of problems (esp not matching advertised claims), and told him about it. She claimed he banned her from his Discord. So, after much hype and BS on both sites, she posted a counter to it all on her blog and Lobsters. Apparently, someone cross-posted it over here without that context, maybe assuming you'd all remember. Just some backstory for you all there. I was speculating he was full of shit when he made the claims. She just proved it with hard data.

pdimitar 7y ago
May I remind you that you are not addressing a single point of those I made? I asked what's the big deal that V's author promised and under-delivered.
- burntsushi 7y ago
  This isn't a case of promising to do something and then not meeting that promise. I certainly do that a fair amount myself, where I might promise to get to something but then forget about it or just generally don't achieve it. Unless you're a company providing a product, folks generally aren't going to hold that kind of stuff against you in my experience. The issue here is that the author made claims that were just not true. As I understand it, the author has updated the presentation of the web site to be clearer, but what I remember, there were a lot of fantastical claims that winded up not being true. There's a big difference between saying, "I hope to accomplish X" and "my software does X." If you're doing the latter repeatedly and it doesn't reflect reality, then people are going to be upset. I'm totally in favor of articles like the OPs, because they prevent other people from wasting their time.
  - pdimitar 7y ago
    Agreed. As I said in a sibling comment on the same level as yours, it's just pretty weird how V's author got relentlessly attacked while a ton of other clickbait titles never receive a single complaint. It's really strange.
    - burntsushi 7y ago
      I've read a lot of the comments, and I don't think "relentlessly attacked" is the phrase I'd use. _Some_ folks were fairly uncharitable, but most from what I saw were flummoxed by the fact that they were mislead, and (rightfully IMO) pointed that out. Believe it or not, the combination of being blatantly mislead, open source and lots of attention on HN sites and the like, doesn't actually happen that often from what I can see. So I guess it's "strange" in the sense that's it's rare, but it totally makes sense to me. As I said, it's one thing to promise something and fail to deliver. It's another to state something as if it were true, when it's actually not. Also, clickbait titles are not even remotely in the same category as what the V author did. It's generally socially acceptable to take a creative license with titles. It's not acceptable to take creative license with precise claims about a technical project. And frankly, people (annoyingly) whine about clickbait titles all the time.
      - pdimitar 7y ago
        Well, it seems we are on exactly the same page, just living in slightly different filter bubbles. To V's author credit, he went ahead and updated the website. Let's see if the thing gets traction in the future. It has quite ambitious goals and I remain cautiously skeptical.
- Veen 7y ago
  Some people would call “promised and under-delivered” a lie, especially when the “promises” were claims about what had already been achieved. Perhaps brazen fibbing is considered normal in the Silicon Valley startup community, but most people find it distasteful.
  - pdimitar 7y ago
    I find it distasteful too. But the focus on V's author is pretty bizarre. Most of HN submissions have clickbaity nature and almost nobody is complaining about it. IMO this community made a mountain out of a mole hill when it comes to V. That was my point and I want to make it clear that I am not defending false advertising.

pdimitar 7y ago

May I remind you that you are not addressing a single point of those I made? I asked what's the big deal that V's author promised and under-delivered.

burntsushi 7y ago
This isn't a case of promising to do something and then not meeting that promise. I certainly do that a fair amount myself, where I might promise to get to something but then forget about it or just generally don't achieve it. Unless you're a company providing a product, folks generally aren't going to hold that kind of stuff against you in my experience. The issue here is that the author made claims that were just not true. As I understand it, the author has updated the presentation of the web site to be clearer, but what I remember, there were a lot of fantastical claims that winded up not being true. There's a big difference between saying, "I hope to accomplish X" and "my software does X." If you're doing the latter repeatedly and it doesn't reflect reality, then people are going to be upset. I'm totally in favor of articles like the OPs, because they prevent other people from wasting their time.
- pdimitar 7y ago
  Agreed. As I said in a sibling comment on the same level as yours, it's just pretty weird how V's author got relentlessly attacked while a ton of other clickbait titles never receive a single complaint. It's really strange.
  - burntsushi 7y ago
    I've read a lot of the comments, and I don't think "relentlessly attacked" is the phrase I'd use. _Some_ folks were fairly uncharitable, but most from what I saw were flummoxed by the fact that they were mislead, and (rightfully IMO) pointed that out. Believe it or not, the combination of being blatantly mislead, open source and lots of attention on HN sites and the like, doesn't actually happen that often from what I can see. So I guess it's "strange" in the sense that's it's rare, but it totally makes sense to me. As I said, it's one thing to promise something and fail to deliver. It's another to state something as if it were true, when it's actually not. Also, clickbait titles are not even remotely in the same category as what the V author did. It's generally socially acceptable to take a creative license with titles. It's not acceptable to take creative license with precise claims about a technical project. And frankly, people (annoyingly) whine about clickbait titles all the time.
    - pdimitar 7y ago
      Well, it seems we are on exactly the same page, just living in slightly different filter bubbles. To V's author credit, he went ahead and updated the website. Let's see if the thing gets traction in the future. It has quite ambitious goals and I remain cautiously skeptical.
Veen 7y ago
Some people would call “promised and under-delivered” a lie, especially when the “promises” were claims about what had already been achieved. Perhaps brazen fibbing is considered normal in the Silicon Valley startup community, but most people find it distasteful.
- pdimitar 7y ago
  I find it distasteful too. But the focus on V's author is pretty bizarre. Most of HN submissions have clickbaity nature and almost nobody is complaining about it. IMO this community made a mountain out of a mole hill when it comes to V. That was my point and I want to make it clear that I am not defending false advertising.