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There are a bunch of strange state-level credits, too. Coal mining credits are regularly reinstated here in Virginia, for instance, and there are also huge subs

There are a bunch of strange state-level credits, too. Coal mining credits are regularly reinstated here in Virginia, for instance, and there are also huge subsidies for infrastructure like ports and railroads primarily used for transporting coal. Also, there are indirect subsidies like depressed property values around coal-oriented rail lines, dust blowing from open rail cars and coal piles into the lungs of nearby residents causing increased asthma rates: https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2017/10/this-huge-rail-company-is-spewing-coal-dust-all-over-a-low-income-community/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2017/10/this-huge-ra... Very few people actually work in these highly-mechanized and automated facilities. Eliminating coal terminals in city limits would easily pay for itself in increased tax revenue from businesses and housing in currently uninhabitable areas surrounding these dusty coal terminals. EDIT: based on the fact that asthma rates are about double in the areas surrounding the terminal and that (based on state-level statistics) there are about 10,000 asthmatics in Newport News with about a tenth of the population of the city living near the coal terminals, that means there are probably on the order of 500 more asthmatics in the area than there would be without the coal terminals. From what I can tell, there are fewer than 500 people actually employed in the two Newport News coal terminals, so we're talking at least one additional case of asthma for every job in the coal terminals. EDIT AGAIN: Ex-Im loan guarantees also go to coal export facilities: https://chesapeakeclimate.org/blog/lawsuit-seeks-to-stop-federal-loan-guarantee-for-coal-planned-for-export-from-hampton-roads/ https://chesapeakeclimate.org/blog/lawsuit-seeks-to-stop-fed...

bamboozled 7y ago
Sometimes I wonder if the attachment to certain industries and jobs is hidden in the psychology of men who were once boys. You were talking about "rails lines". I remember living in a coal town like you're describing and it was fascinating how much the coal terminal seemed like a massive Tonka Truck set. Big trains, cars and ships coming in out and constantly and the men who were fascinated by all of it. Those who owned and operated it, like a huge toy train set. I mean it was interesting. Most people who worked there just loved the coal industry and what it was about, comradery, big shiny trucks etc. I'd actually love to know if anyone has actually found any research on the euphoria and attachment people have to fossil fuel industries and if that has anything to do with part of their ongoing popularity and support for mining jobs (obviously asside from just the money part). It honestly seems like some people would feel like a part of them were dead if it's all shut down. I did once see a documentary on post coal mining depression in some places in the UK and it's real. Renewable energy doesn't really have the same kind of boyish appeal I guess.
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  I think what you're describing is a real thing, but the strange thing about Newport News is it's much more known for shipbuilding, and that employs about two orders of magnitude more people: https://www.dailypress.com/business/newport-news-shipyard/dp-nws-northam-visit-main-20180625-story.html https://www.dailypress.com/business/newport-news-shipyard/dp... ...if anything, I think the coal export terminals run under the radar of the local community. The people who live close to the terminals are too poor and lack enough power to do much about them, and the terminals are basically ignored by everyone else. There's also a lot of other port traffic in Hampton Roads, including shipping containers and vehicle carriers as well as a lot of military vessels, and that accounts for more traffic and far more revenue than the coal terminals. If anything, Hampton Roads is known for its military bases (all branches of the military) and ship building. The thing about coal is it's still very cheap and so is responsible for very small amounts of revenue given its enormous environmental footprint. Oil produces over ten times the revenue per unit energy than thermal coal (and generally has lower economic footprint per unit energy since it's more gravimetrically energy dense and has lower ash and carbon content per unit mass) so is more economically important for a given environmental cost. Additionally, what's odd about these facilities is they're for metallurgical coal exports, meaning they're contributing to the off-shoring of the US steel industry.
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    While oil does have an advantage over coal in energy density, coal has an advantage over oil in its mobility. Environmentalists don't protest the railroad that's carrying coal as much as they protest pipelines.
- sbov 7y ago
  I always get a bit sad when a chunk of land that was once used to produce something (e.g. an old research plant), gets converted into something to consume something (e.g. a mini mall). Several of the vestiges that existed when I was a kid of what gave silicon valley its name are now gone and replaced with shopping centers.
- benj111 7y ago

bamboozled 7y ago

Sometimes I wonder if the attachment to certain industries and jobs is hidden in the psychology of men who were once boys. You were talking about "rails lines". I remember living in a coal town like you're describing and it was fascinating how much the coal terminal seemed like a massive Tonka Truck set. Big trains, cars and ships coming in out and constantly and the men who were fascinated by all of it. Those who owned and operated it, like a huge toy train set. I mean it was interesting. Most people who worked there just loved the coal industry and what it was about, comradery, big shiny trucks etc. I'd actually love to know if anyone has actually found any research on the euphoria and attachment people have to fossil fuel industries and if that has anything to do with part of their ongoing popularity and support for mining jobs (obviously asside from just the money part). It honestly seems like some people would feel like a part of them were dead if it's all shut down. I did once see a documentary on post coal mining depression in some places in the UK and it's real. Renewable energy doesn't really have the same kind of boyish appeal I guess.

Robotbeat 7y ago
I think what you're describing is a real thing, but the strange thing about Newport News is it's much more known for shipbuilding, and that employs about two orders of magnitude more people: https://www.dailypress.com/business/newport-news-shipyard/dp-nws-northam-visit-main-20180625-story.html https://www.dailypress.com/business/newport-news-shipyard/dp... ...if anything, I think the coal export terminals run under the radar of the local community. The people who live close to the terminals are too poor and lack enough power to do much about them, and the terminals are basically ignored by everyone else. There's also a lot of other port traffic in Hampton Roads, including shipping containers and vehicle carriers as well as a lot of military vessels, and that accounts for more traffic and far more revenue than the coal terminals. If anything, Hampton Roads is known for its military bases (all branches of the military) and ship building. The thing about coal is it's still very cheap and so is responsible for very small amounts of revenue given its enormous environmental footprint. Oil produces over ten times the revenue per unit energy than thermal coal (and generally has lower economic footprint per unit energy since it's more gravimetrically energy dense and has lower ash and carbon content per unit mass) so is more economically important for a given environmental cost. Additionally, what's odd about these facilities is they're for metallurgical coal exports, meaning they're contributing to the off-shoring of the US steel industry.
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  While oil does have an advantage over coal in energy density, coal has an advantage over oil in its mobility. Environmentalists don't protest the railroad that's carrying coal as much as they protest pipelines.
sbov 7y ago
I always get a bit sad when a chunk of land that was once used to produce something (e.g. an old research plant), gets converted into something to consume something (e.g. a mini mall). Several of the vestiges that existed when I was a kid of what gave silicon valley its name are now gone and replaced with shopping centers.
benj111 7y ago