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HN downvotes effectively hide comments from view. HN policy is that "down vote for disagreement" is acceptable. That is literally a recipe for creating an ech

HN downvotes effectively hide comments from view. HN policy is that "down vote for disagreement" is acceptable. That is literally a recipe for creating an echo chamber. That isn't an opinion its fucking logic.

DoreenMichele 7y ago
You are awfully quick to cuss at someone for merely having a difference of opinion about something that could be viewed as trivial in the grand scheme of things. Ironic given that you are decrying the evils of a forum supposedly becoming an echo chamber. I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the HN leader board. I spent nearly six years homeless and was an active participant here during that time. I was quite open about being homeless. I'm firmly against UBI when UBI is a fairly popular idea around here. I'm critical of what I frame the "pro vax" crowd, which is a highly controversial position. I've been thrown off of multiple forums or simply left because it wasn't productive. Although I have a lobsters account, I barely spend any time there in part because of the gestapo like inquiry from the moderating staff concerning why the hell I had joined given that I don't yet know how to code. The moderating staff made it quite clear my nefarious interest in a coding forum as a non programmer combined with "unusual behavior" -- probably largely rooted in being a demographic outlier -- meant they absolutely had their eye on me. This made me feel distinctly uncomfortable in a way I have never felt on HN. It also suggests a dramatically lower tolerance for social differences than HN has. Your view of HN vs Lobsters and mine aren't remotely on the same page. And cussing at me about how you have logic on your side utterly fails to overturn the weight of my first-hand experience with both forums.
- stephenr 7y ago
  > You are awfully quick to cuss at someone for merely having a difference of opinion about something that could be viewed as trivial in the grand scheme of things. I didn't swear because you have a different opinion. I swore because "well I don't think it is" is not a valid response to the logic posted. > Ironic given that you are decrying the evils of a forum supposedly becoming an echo chamber. I didn't silence you, or hide your comment from others. Please learn what irony is. > I, I, I, <snip> How is any of that relevant. Please discuss the facts. How you or I or the neighbours dog live is irrelevant. > Although I have a lobsters account, I barely spend any time there in part because of the gestapo like inquiry from the moderating staff concerning why the hell I had joined given that I don't yet know how to code. The moderating staff made it quite clear my nefarious interest in a coding forum as a non programmer combined with "unusual behavior" -- probably largely rooted in being a demographic outlier -- meant they absolutely had their eye on me. Given that Lobste.rs makes moderation actions public, please provide some references. > how you have logic on your side utterly fails to overturn the weight of my first-hand experience with both forums. Lets cut straight to the facts: HN approves and agrees with "downvote to show disagreement". Fact. HN by-default completely hides, and even with that option off, uses styling to reduce readability of any comment that is down voted. Fact. Lobste.rs requires an actual reason to downvote, specifically to counter the type of things that occur on HN and other sites with similar features. Fact. Lobste.rs does not "hide" down voted comments. So please, tell me again how your anecdotal evidence is more relevant than the simple logic of how each site is designed to function?
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    Given that Lobste.rs makes moderation actions public, please provide some references Contrary to how you believe the site operates, they private messaged me.
    - stephenr 7y ago
      > Contrary to how you believe the site operates, they private messaged me. Who is "they"? What comments/posts was it in reference to?
      - DoreenMichele 7y ago
        After I declined to publicly answer his overly personal inquiry, pushcx messaged me the following: Hey Doreen, After chatting with you about the text on the invite page I’m curious, what brought you to Lobsters? I can’t imagine it being especially interesting to people who aren’t developers or sysadmins. Why did you want to sign up and participate, what does Lobsters have that’s interesting to you? It is, of course, extremely superficially polite. Except he asked me a question publicly. I declined to answer his personal question publicly. So he publicly stated that I was welcome to message him privately about it. I said no thanks, I'm good and then he messaged me privately. So, in, other words, it wasn't an invitation. I wasn't allowed to decline to discuss it with him. I was actually required to answer his invasive questions. Conversation he's referencing is here: https://lobste.rs/s/sfzmwr/proposal_set_everyone_s_invite_count_zero#c_qriulp https://lobste.rs/s/sfzmwr/proposal_set_everyone_s_invite_co... I don't intend to discuss this further with you. But, in short, social issues are people problems and tech is merely a tool. Tech doesn't per se solve social problems. That's not actually how that works. (In case it actually needs to be said, my handle over there is Doreen.)
        stephenr 7y ago
        You thought one of the people who runs a site, that you signed up for, asking what brought you there, after a discussion around how the site attracts new users, was "invasive"? Oh wait. Is me asking about him asking also invasive? > I don't intend to discuss this further with you. Good. I'd hate for you to somehow think I'm a nazi because I asked a fucking question.

DoreenMichele 7y ago

You are awfully quick to cuss at someone for merely having a difference of opinion about something that could be viewed as trivial in the grand scheme of things. Ironic given that you are decrying the evils of a forum supposedly becoming an echo chamber. I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the HN leader board. I spent nearly six years homeless and was an active participant here during that time. I was quite open about being homeless. I'm firmly against UBI when UBI is a fairly popular idea around here. I'm critical of what I frame the "pro vax" crowd, which is a highly controversial position. I've been thrown off of multiple forums or simply left because it wasn't productive. Although I have a lobsters account, I barely spend any time there in part because of the gestapo like inquiry from the moderating staff concerning why the hell I had joined given that I don't yet know how to code. The moderating staff made it quite clear my nefarious interest in a coding forum as a non programmer combined with "unusual behavior" -- probably largely rooted in being a demographic outlier -- meant they absolutely had their eye on me. This made me feel distinctly uncomfortable in a way I have never felt on HN. It also suggests a dramatically lower tolerance for social differences than HN has. Your view of HN vs Lobsters and mine aren't remotely on the same page. And cussing at me about how you have logic on your side utterly fails to overturn the weight of my first-hand experience with both forums.

stephenr 7y ago
> You are awfully quick to cuss at someone for merely having a difference of opinion about something that could be viewed as trivial in the grand scheme of things. I didn't swear because you have a different opinion. I swore because "well I don't think it is" is not a valid response to the logic posted. > Ironic given that you are decrying the evils of a forum supposedly becoming an echo chamber. I didn't silence you, or hide your comment from others. Please learn what irony is. > I, I, I, <snip> How is any of that relevant. Please discuss the facts. How you or I or the neighbours dog live is irrelevant. > Although I have a lobsters account, I barely spend any time there in part because of the gestapo like inquiry from the moderating staff concerning why the hell I had joined given that I don't yet know how to code. The moderating staff made it quite clear my nefarious interest in a coding forum as a non programmer combined with "unusual behavior" -- probably largely rooted in being a demographic outlier -- meant they absolutely had their eye on me. Given that Lobste.rs makes moderation actions public, please provide some references. > how you have logic on your side utterly fails to overturn the weight of my first-hand experience with both forums. Lets cut straight to the facts: HN approves and agrees with "downvote to show disagreement". Fact. HN by-default completely hides, and even with that option off, uses styling to reduce readability of any comment that is down voted. Fact. Lobste.rs requires an actual reason to downvote, specifically to counter the type of things that occur on HN and other sites with similar features. Fact. Lobste.rs does not "hide" down voted comments. So please, tell me again how your anecdotal evidence is more relevant than the simple logic of how each site is designed to function?
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  Given that Lobste.rs makes moderation actions public, please provide some references Contrary to how you believe the site operates, they private messaged me.
  - stephenr 7y ago
    > Contrary to how you believe the site operates, they private messaged me. Who is "they"? What comments/posts was it in reference to?
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      After I declined to publicly answer his overly personal inquiry, pushcx messaged me the following: Hey Doreen, After chatting with you about the text on the invite page I’m curious, what brought you to Lobsters? I can’t imagine it being especially interesting to people who aren’t developers or sysadmins. Why did you want to sign up and participate, what does Lobsters have that’s interesting to you? It is, of course, extremely superficially polite. Except he asked me a question publicly. I declined to answer his personal question publicly. So he publicly stated that I was welcome to message him privately about it. I said no thanks, I'm good and then he messaged me privately. So, in, other words, it wasn't an invitation. I wasn't allowed to decline to discuss it with him. I was actually required to answer his invasive questions. Conversation he's referencing is here: https://lobste.rs/s/sfzmwr/proposal_set_everyone_s_invite_count_zero#c_qriulp https://lobste.rs/s/sfzmwr/proposal_set_everyone_s_invite_co... I don't intend to discuss this further with you. But, in short, social issues are people problems and tech is merely a tool. Tech doesn't per se solve social problems. That's not actually how that works. (In case it actually needs to be said, my handle over there is Doreen.)
      - stephenr 7y ago
        You thought one of the people who runs a site, that you signed up for, asking what brought you there, after a discussion around how the site attracts new users, was "invasive"? Oh wait. Is me asking about him asking also invasive? > I don't intend to discuss this further with you. Good. I'd hate for you to somehow think I'm a nazi because I asked a fucking question.