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Downvotes require a reason; admin edits are logged for transparency; tagging; just to name a few off the top of my head.

DoreenMichele 7y ago
I'm really not trying to derail the discussion. But this isn't a very compelling argument. Does anyone know of a good write up comparing the two?
- stephenr 7y ago
  Then I’d suggest you need to pay more attention to the meta discussions on HN. Sanctioned downvote misuse creating an echo chamber has always been a huge complaint. For the case in hand it doesn’t even matter: HN is not open source, you can’t install it yourself so you can’t expect to mirror the algorithms for ranking etc. Lobste.rs is open source.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    That doesn't actually answer my question. Sanctioned downvote misuse creating an echo chamber has always been a huge complaint. That actually doesn't fit with my experience at all. I've been here nearly 10 years. (I mean it actually being an echo chamber. I'm aware people complain it is.) I have a lobsters account. I don't spend much time there. I was collaborating with someone on an HN clone when I joined lobsters. We talked a bit about some of the features on lobsters and whether or not to incorporate them into our site. We had already added a tagging system. The fact that you like lobsters better than HN is not some kind of objective measurement. I'm not adequately knowledgeable to give my own list or rebut your opinion, nor am I trying to start drama. I'm genuinely curious as to how the two compare in some meaningful way, beyond your short blurb, which boils down being to your opinion. In the interest of not derailing this discussion further, if anyone knows of a good write up, please let me know. My email is in my profile. Thanks.
    - stephenr 7y ago
      HN downvotes effectively hide comments from view. HN policy is that "down vote for disagreement" is acceptable. That is literally a recipe for creating an echo chamber. That isn't an opinion its fucking logic.
      - DoreenMichele 7y ago
        You are awfully quick to cuss at someone for merely having a difference of opinion about something that could be viewed as trivial in the grand scheme of things. Ironic given that you are decrying the evils of a forum supposedly becoming an echo chamber. I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the HN leader board. I spent nearly six years homeless and was an active participant here during that time. I was quite open about being homeless. I'm firmly against UBI when UBI is a fairly popular idea around here. I'm critical of what I frame the "pro vax" crowd, which is a highly controversial position. I've been thrown off of multiple forums or simply left because it wasn't productive. Although I have a lobsters account, I barely spend any time there in part because of the gestapo like inquiry from the moderating staff concerning why the hell I had joined given that I don't yet know how to code. The moderating staff made it quite clear my nefarious interest in a coding forum as a non programmer combined with "unusual behavior" -- probably largely rooted in being a demographic outlier -- meant they absolutely had their eye on me. This made me feel distinctly uncomfortable in a way I have never felt on HN. It also suggests a dramatically lower tolerance for social differences than HN has. Your view of HN vs Lobsters and mine aren't remotely on the same page. And cussing at me about how you have logic on your side utterly fails to overturn the weight of my first-hand experience with both forums.
        stephenr 7y ago
        > You are awfully quick to cuss at someone for merely having a difference of opinion about something that could be viewed as trivial in the grand scheme of things. I didn't swear because you have a different opinion. I swore because "well I don't think it is" is not a valid response to the logic posted. > Ironic given that you are decrying the evils of a forum supposedly becoming an echo chamber. I didn't silence you, or hide your comment from others. Please learn what irony is. > I, I, I, <snip> How is any of that relevant. Please discuss the facts. How you or I or the neighbours dog live is irrelevant. > Although I have a lobsters account, I barely spend any time there in part because of the gestapo like inquiry from the moderating staff concerning why the hell I had joined given that I don't yet know how to code. The moderating staff made it quite clear my nefarious interest in a coding forum as a non programmer combined with "unusual behavior" -- probably largely rooted in being a demographic outlier -- meant they absolutely had their eye on me. Given that Lobste.rs makes moderation actions public, please provide some references. > how you have logic on your side utterly fails to overturn the weight of my first-hand experience with both forums. Lets cut straight to the facts: HN approves and agrees with "downvote to show disagreement". Fact. HN by-default completely hides, and even with that option off, uses styling to reduce readability of any comment that is down voted. Fact. Lobste.rs requires an actual reason to downvote, specifically to counter the type of things that occur on HN and other sites with similar features. Fact. Lobste.rs does not "hide" down voted comments. So please, tell me again how your anecdotal evidence is more relevant than the simple logic of how each site is designed to function?
  - dang 7y ago
    > HN is not open source That rather contradicts the submission you're commenting under.
    - stephenr 7y ago
      So, by that logic if I make a desktop window manager that looks just like Windows, Windows is then Open Source? I mean, really, what kind of argument is this? X builds a thing. Y copies the appearance of X's thing. An employee of X then claims that is evidence of X being open source. If you want to refute my claim, where is the source code for HN?
      - dang 7y ago
        An early version of HN is bundled with http://arclanguage.org/install http://arclanguage.org/install. One of these years we'll release an update that incorporates how HN has evolved over the years. But we have several other projects to get out first. Also we wouldn't do it without pg's blessing.

DoreenMichele 7y ago

I'm really not trying to derail the discussion. But this isn't a very compelling argument. Does anyone know of a good write up comparing the two?

stephenr 7y ago
Then I’d suggest you need to pay more attention to the meta discussions on HN. Sanctioned downvote misuse creating an echo chamber has always been a huge complaint. For the case in hand it doesn’t even matter: HN is not open source, you can’t install it yourself so you can’t expect to mirror the algorithms for ranking etc. Lobste.rs is open source.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  That doesn't actually answer my question. Sanctioned downvote misuse creating an echo chamber has always been a huge complaint. That actually doesn't fit with my experience at all. I've been here nearly 10 years. (I mean it actually being an echo chamber. I'm aware people complain it is.) I have a lobsters account. I don't spend much time there. I was collaborating with someone on an HN clone when I joined lobsters. We talked a bit about some of the features on lobsters and whether or not to incorporate them into our site. We had already added a tagging system. The fact that you like lobsters better than HN is not some kind of objective measurement. I'm not adequately knowledgeable to give my own list or rebut your opinion, nor am I trying to start drama. I'm genuinely curious as to how the two compare in some meaningful way, beyond your short blurb, which boils down being to your opinion. In the interest of not derailing this discussion further, if anyone knows of a good write up, please let me know. My email is in my profile. Thanks.
  - stephenr 7y ago
    HN downvotes effectively hide comments from view. HN policy is that "down vote for disagreement" is acceptable. That is literally a recipe for creating an echo chamber. That isn't an opinion its fucking logic.
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      You are awfully quick to cuss at someone for merely having a difference of opinion about something that could be viewed as trivial in the grand scheme of things. Ironic given that you are decrying the evils of a forum supposedly becoming an echo chamber. I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the HN leader board. I spent nearly six years homeless and was an active participant here during that time. I was quite open about being homeless. I'm firmly against UBI when UBI is a fairly popular idea around here. I'm critical of what I frame the "pro vax" crowd, which is a highly controversial position. I've been thrown off of multiple forums or simply left because it wasn't productive. Although I have a lobsters account, I barely spend any time there in part because of the gestapo like inquiry from the moderating staff concerning why the hell I had joined given that I don't yet know how to code. The moderating staff made it quite clear my nefarious interest in a coding forum as a non programmer combined with "unusual behavior" -- probably largely rooted in being a demographic outlier -- meant they absolutely had their eye on me. This made me feel distinctly uncomfortable in a way I have never felt on HN. It also suggests a dramatically lower tolerance for social differences than HN has. Your view of HN vs Lobsters and mine aren't remotely on the same page. And cussing at me about how you have logic on your side utterly fails to overturn the weight of my first-hand experience with both forums.
      - stephenr 7y ago
        > You are awfully quick to cuss at someone for merely having a difference of opinion about something that could be viewed as trivial in the grand scheme of things. I didn't swear because you have a different opinion. I swore because "well I don't think it is" is not a valid response to the logic posted. > Ironic given that you are decrying the evils of a forum supposedly becoming an echo chamber. I didn't silence you, or hide your comment from others. Please learn what irony is. > I, I, I, <snip> How is any of that relevant. Please discuss the facts. How you or I or the neighbours dog live is irrelevant. > Although I have a lobsters account, I barely spend any time there in part because of the gestapo like inquiry from the moderating staff concerning why the hell I had joined given that I don't yet know how to code. The moderating staff made it quite clear my nefarious interest in a coding forum as a non programmer combined with "unusual behavior" -- probably largely rooted in being a demographic outlier -- meant they absolutely had their eye on me. Given that Lobste.rs makes moderation actions public, please provide some references. > how you have logic on your side utterly fails to overturn the weight of my first-hand experience with both forums. Lets cut straight to the facts: HN approves and agrees with "downvote to show disagreement". Fact. HN by-default completely hides, and even with that option off, uses styling to reduce readability of any comment that is down voted. Fact. Lobste.rs requires an actual reason to downvote, specifically to counter the type of things that occur on HN and other sites with similar features. Fact. Lobste.rs does not "hide" down voted comments. So please, tell me again how your anecdotal evidence is more relevant than the simple logic of how each site is designed to function?
- dang 7y ago
  > HN is not open source That rather contradicts the submission you're commenting under.
  - stephenr 7y ago
    So, by that logic if I make a desktop window manager that looks just like Windows, Windows is then Open Source? I mean, really, what kind of argument is this? X builds a thing. Y copies the appearance of X's thing. An employee of X then claims that is evidence of X being open source. If you want to refute my claim, where is the source code for HN?
    - dang 7y ago
      An early version of HN is bundled with http://arclanguage.org/install http://arclanguage.org/install. One of these years we'll release an update that incorporates how HN has evolved over the years. But we have several other projects to get out first. Also we wouldn't do it without pg's blessing.