8 ms·

ICE Is Paying Millions to Surveillance Company to Spy on People’s Communications

24 points by oil25 7y ago

tru3_power 7y ago
On mobile. What do you recommend I should use to read this on iOS?
- cmg 7y ago
  I believe that Onion Browser is the recommended app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/onion-browser/id519296448 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/onion-browser/id519296448 Some discussion and notes from the Tor Project blog: https://blog.torproject.org/tor-heart-onion-browser-and-more-ios-tor https://blog.torproject.org/tor-heart-onion-browser-and-more...
- ohazi 7y ago
  Your browser: https://privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/2995/ice-paying-millions-surveillance-company-spy-peoples-communications https://privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/2995/ice-payi...
deftnerd 7y ago
For those who want to read the information without having to load TBB, you can use the clearnet URL: https://privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/2995/ice-paying-millions-surveillance-company-spy-peoples-communications https://privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/2995/ice-payi...
- random42 7y ago
  What is TBB?
  - jniles 7y ago
    I assume tor browser bundle.
  - ghostpepper 7y ago
    I think Tor Browser Bundle. This looks to be a dark-web page, since the TLD is .onion.
    - markovbot 7y ago
      Can we at least not call it "dark-web" on HN? I get that media morons are trying to come up with a way to make tor sound more scary, but that's a meaningless term that IMO we should not use here.
      - microwavecamera 7y ago
        Can we still wear black hoodies and ski masks when we're using TOR? I already bought my wardrobe for the fall season.
      - ghostpepper 7y ago
        I actually wasn't sure what a better term was. Tor site? Onion site? Is "dark web" ambiguous; can it refer to other technologies?
        markovbot 7y ago
        "onion site" or "onion service" is probably preferred, "a site on the tor network" would also probably work.
    - random42 7y ago
      Thanks.
microcolonel 7y ago
A law enforcement agency is procuring products and services with money from their budget, to carry out their work. What is the practical difference between this and their own "open source intelligence" efforts?
- sorokod 7y ago
  Same as between national military and private military.
- jMyles 7y ago
  > A law enforcement agency is procuring products and services with money from their budget, to carry out their work. You can stop right there and it's already objectionable to many of us. I don't want the federal government involved in "law enforcement," full stop. It's not their job. I especially don't want a domestic security agency spending $50 million dollars on “phone records, consumer and credit bureau data, healthcare provider content, utilities data, DMV records, World-Check listings, business data, data from social networks and chatrooms, and 'live access to more than 7 billion license plate detections'." So it doesn't matter that there is or isn't a practical different between a the use of a contractor and 'their own "open source intelligence" efforts"' - I don't want them doing either one.
  - dillonmckay 7y ago
    At least if it was the federal agencies own efforts, they would not be able to sidestep due-process by ‘outsourcing’.
  - dsl 7y ago
    > I don't want the federal government involved in "law enforcement," full stop. It's not their job. That is a broad cut if you just don't agree with ICE. There are tons of federal LEOs that do the jobs states and local governments can't. The US Marshall Service - Witness protection and relocation to other states. Rounding up fugitives from the federal judicial system. US Secret Service - which state should protect the US currency and our elected officials? BLM / National Ranger Service - who protects and enforces laws on lands specifically owned by the federal government? State Department, Diplomatic Security Service - what about visiting foreign dignitaries? United States Capitol Police - DC is a sovereign district. Should it be policed by a neighboring state? USPS Postal Police - investigates crimes committed using the mail service, which often crosses state borders. DoE/NRE Protective Units - Who should have ultimate control over nuclear warheads in transit? Texas? California?
swixm 7y ago
I am not a paedophile so my browser can't open onion links.
- Browun 7y ago
  > I am not a paedophile so my browser can't open onion links. I hope you feel proud in your contribution to this topic.
  - swixm 7y ago
    I do actually. Just a bit sad that I will have to switch proxies as soon as dang wakes up.
tssva 7y ago
I'm not a big fan of ICE but this article is ridiculous fear mongering. What ICE is paying for is implementations of lawful wiretaps after obtaining a warrant from a court just as every other US local, state and federal law enforcement agency does.
- vtail 7y ago
  Thank you for reading the article and summarizing it - I flagged the submission, and recommend others do the same.
  - stareatgoats 7y ago
    You really think that's good policy, to flag an article based on someones summary - without reading it? and on top of that recommend others do the same?
- snazz 7y ago
  While I agree, that doesn’t mean that their usage of lawful wiretaps is ethical, which is the bigger issue.
  - tssva 7y ago
    I don't see the bigger issue being whether their use of lawful court approved wiretaps is ethical. I think the discussion of whether lawful wiretaps are ethical and should be used by law enforcement was settled long ago with the vast majority agreeing with their use. I see the bigger issue being whether ICE's law enforcement mission is ethical. Once you accept that it is, which I don't necessarily do, the use of lawful wiretaps to achieve it seems to me to be for most a non-issue.
  - bradleyjg 7y ago
    I agree, but I think it is somewhat unfair to always make it about ICE, when really it's about Congress and the President. A public employee that does the right thing at great personal cost is a hero, but our elected officials should never put them in that position in the first place. That's where the bulk of the anger belongs--at a legislature that has abdicated way too much of its responsibility and at an elected executive that has taken that delegated authority and used it for things we find unethical. Sure we can save some disappointment and anger for the foot-soldiers but not at the cost of losing site of where most of the blame belongs. We have protests about companies providing software to ICE, why don't we have any protests about companies providing software to the White House and Congress?
TheRealPomax 7y ago
This should have the URL changed to https://privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/2995/ice-paying-millions-surveillance-company-spy-peoples-communications https://privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/2995/ice-payi... (but also, as already pointed out by another comment, this is an incredibly misleading title)

24 points by oil25 7y ago

tru3_power 7y ago

On mobile. What do you recommend I should use to read this on iOS?

cmg 7y ago
I believe that Onion Browser is the recommended app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/onion-browser/id519296448 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/onion-browser/id519296448 Some discussion and notes from the Tor Project blog: https://blog.torproject.org/tor-heart-onion-browser-and-more-ios-tor https://blog.torproject.org/tor-heart-onion-browser-and-more...
ohazi 7y ago
Your browser: https://privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/2995/ice-paying-millions-surveillance-company-spy-peoples-communications https://privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/2995/ice-payi...

deftnerd 7y ago

For those who want to read the information without having to load TBB, you can use the clearnet URL: https://privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/2995/ice-paying-millions-surveillance-company-spy-peoples-communications https://privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/2995/ice-payi...

random42 7y ago
What is TBB?
- jniles 7y ago
  I assume tor browser bundle.
- ghostpepper 7y ago
  I think Tor Browser Bundle. This looks to be a dark-web page, since the TLD is .onion.
  - markovbot 7y ago
    Can we at least not call it "dark-web" on HN? I get that media morons are trying to come up with a way to make tor sound more scary, but that's a meaningless term that IMO we should not use here.
    - microwavecamera 7y ago
      Can we still wear black hoodies and ski masks when we're using TOR? I already bought my wardrobe for the fall season.
    - ghostpepper 7y ago
      I actually wasn't sure what a better term was. Tor site? Onion site? Is "dark web" ambiguous; can it refer to other technologies?
      - markovbot 7y ago
        "onion site" or "onion service" is probably preferred, "a site on the tor network" would also probably work.
  - random42 7y ago
    Thanks.

microcolonel 7y ago

A law enforcement agency is procuring products and services with money from their budget, to carry out their work. What is the practical difference between this and their own "open source intelligence" efforts?

sorokod 7y ago
Same as between national military and private military.
jMyles 7y ago
> A law enforcement agency is procuring products and services with money from their budget, to carry out their work. You can stop right there and it's already objectionable to many of us. I don't want the federal government involved in "law enforcement," full stop. It's not their job. I especially don't want a domestic security agency spending $50 million dollars on “phone records, consumer and credit bureau data, healthcare provider content, utilities data, DMV records, World-Check listings, business data, data from social networks and chatrooms, and 'live access to more than 7 billion license plate detections'." So it doesn't matter that there is or isn't a practical different between a the use of a contractor and 'their own "open source intelligence" efforts"' - I don't want them doing either one.
- dillonmckay 7y ago
  At least if it was the federal agencies own efforts, they would not be able to sidestep due-process by ‘outsourcing’.
- dsl 7y ago
  > I don't want the federal government involved in "law enforcement," full stop. It's not their job. That is a broad cut if you just don't agree with ICE. There are tons of federal LEOs that do the jobs states and local governments can't. The US Marshall Service - Witness protection and relocation to other states. Rounding up fugitives from the federal judicial system. US Secret Service - which state should protect the US currency and our elected officials? BLM / National Ranger Service - who protects and enforces laws on lands specifically owned by the federal government? State Department, Diplomatic Security Service - what about visiting foreign dignitaries? United States Capitol Police - DC is a sovereign district. Should it be policed by a neighboring state? USPS Postal Police - investigates crimes committed using the mail service, which often crosses state borders. DoE/NRE Protective Units - Who should have ultimate control over nuclear warheads in transit? Texas? California?

swixm 7y ago

I am not a paedophile so my browser can't open onion links.

Browun 7y ago
> I am not a paedophile so my browser can't open onion links. I hope you feel proud in your contribution to this topic.
- swixm 7y ago
  I do actually. Just a bit sad that I will have to switch proxies as soon as dang wakes up.

tssva 7y ago

I'm not a big fan of ICE but this article is ridiculous fear mongering. What ICE is paying for is implementations of lawful wiretaps after obtaining a warrant from a court just as every other US local, state and federal law enforcement agency does.

vtail 7y ago
Thank you for reading the article and summarizing it - I flagged the submission, and recommend others do the same.
- stareatgoats 7y ago
  You really think that's good policy, to flag an article based on someones summary - without reading it? and on top of that recommend others do the same?
snazz 7y ago
While I agree, that doesn’t mean that their usage of lawful wiretaps is ethical, which is the bigger issue.
- tssva 7y ago
  I don't see the bigger issue being whether their use of lawful court approved wiretaps is ethical. I think the discussion of whether lawful wiretaps are ethical and should be used by law enforcement was settled long ago with the vast majority agreeing with their use. I see the bigger issue being whether ICE's law enforcement mission is ethical. Once you accept that it is, which I don't necessarily do, the use of lawful wiretaps to achieve it seems to me to be for most a non-issue.
- bradleyjg 7y ago
  I agree, but I think it is somewhat unfair to always make it about ICE, when really it's about Congress and the President. A public employee that does the right thing at great personal cost is a hero, but our elected officials should never put them in that position in the first place. That's where the bulk of the anger belongs--at a legislature that has abdicated way too much of its responsibility and at an elected executive that has taken that delegated authority and used it for things we find unethical. Sure we can save some disappointment and anger for the foot-soldiers but not at the cost of losing site of where most of the blame belongs. We have protests about companies providing software to ICE, why don't we have any protests about companies providing software to the White House and Congress?

TheRealPomax 7y ago

This should have the URL changed to https://privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/2995/ice-paying-millions-surveillance-company-spy-peoples-communications https://privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/2995/ice-payi... (but also, as already pointed out by another comment, this is an incredibly misleading title)