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>What are you thoughts as to why .NET hasn't taken off at startups? To echo what others said... A lot of hot startups are founded by young college kids. They

by jasode 7y ago

>What are you thoughts as to why .NET hasn't taken off at startups? To echo what others said... A lot of hot startups are founded by young college kids. They don't have money for expensive Visual Studio licenses to program in C# and .NET world. In contrast, the alternative dev tools like Java, Ruby, PHP were free. In college classes, they would have played around with free software instead of Microsoft. Microsoft charged money in multiple areas of the stack: the compiler (VS) cost money, the database (MS SQL Server) cost money, and the operating system (Windows licenses) cost money. In contrast, PHP+MySql+Linux was $0. Microsoft later tried to reverse the loss of mindshare with promotional programs such as DreamSpark and BizSpark[0]. That's where a small business could get Microsoft dev tools for free for a limited time. However, those enticements really didn't change a lot of minds because founders knew that once the startup had revenue a year later, they'd have to pay a "Microsoft tax". Yes, MS later radically changed strategy by making their tools open source and more compatible on Linux. However, it was too late because the culture of startups avoiding MS technology was already deeply ingrained. The StackOverflow site would be one of the few high-profile startups that bought into the Microsoft tech stack. [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+dreamspark+bizspark https://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+dreamspark+bizspar...

Avalaxy 7y ago
> A lot of hot startups are founded by young college kids. They don't have money for expensive Visual Studio licenses to program in C# and .NET world. In contrast, the alternative dev tools like Java, Ruby, PHP were free. In college classes, they would have played around with free software instead of Microsoft. I don't agree. When I was a student, Microsoft was pushing their MSDN for students very hard, as well as their other programs (like Microsoft Student Partner). As a student, Microsoft's tools have always been free and very easy to obtain. On top of that, they were the only ones that provided me with free cloud credits to host my stuff. I never gotten any from competitive cloud vendors. This is in Europe though, I feel Microsoft has a much stronger foothold here than in the US.
Someone1234 7y ago
> To echo what others said... Your post doesn't do that. Most other posts name other reasons (potentially legitimate ones), your "it is expensive" justification is inaccurate and doesn't echo most posts here. > Microsoft charged money in multiple areas of the stack: the compiler (VS) cost money, the database (MS SQL Server) cost money, and the operating system (Windows licenses) cost money. The C# compiler is free and OSS. You don't need Visual Studio to use it. In fact many use it with VSCode, VIM, or Notepad++ for $0. You can also pay less money and use Jetbrains' Rider, or 5x commercial users can use Visual Studio Community Edition if you want a fancy IDE. MS Sql is non-free. But not at all part of .Net Framework. So it is off-topic. You can use MySQL, PostgreSql, SQLite, most Cloud database solutions (Azure, AWS, Google Cloud), or whatever you want. Drivers are readily available. You also don't need Windows. .Net Core is available for Linux and MacOS. So if C#/.Net Core + VIM + Linux + MySql is your thing? You can. For $0. Today. This type of misinformation is why people don't look to .Net Core though unfortunately.
- Barrin92 7y ago
  > You can. For $0. Today. with the focus on today. A significant amount of infrastructure you just named is merely a few years old, and understandably hasn't made it into most companies.
- jasode 7y ago
  >Your post doesn't do that. So in the good spirit of acknowledging others who posted similar comments before me, I get nitpicked?!? - hours before me... look for word "money": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256086 - hour before me... look for word "budget":: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256682 - 9 minutes before me... look for word "expensive": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256765 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256765 - 5 minutes before me... look for word "costs": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256788 >For $0. Today. Yes I also mentioned that tools are free today. My comment was about how the past has a ripple effect on culture of startups avoiding the Microsoft tech stack. This is still in effect today. I would guess than 90+% of YC startups in 2019 are still not choosing the Microsoft stack. It doesn't matter to those founders that .NET Core and VSCode are free today.

by jasode 7y ago

Avalaxy 7y ago

> A lot of hot startups are founded by young college kids. They don't have money for expensive Visual Studio licenses to program in C# and .NET world. In contrast, the alternative dev tools like Java, Ruby, PHP were free. In college classes, they would have played around with free software instead of Microsoft. I don't agree. When I was a student, Microsoft was pushing their MSDN for students very hard, as well as their other programs (like Microsoft Student Partner). As a student, Microsoft's tools have always been free and very easy to obtain. On top of that, they were the only ones that provided me with free cloud credits to host my stuff. I never gotten any from competitive cloud vendors. This is in Europe though, I feel Microsoft has a much stronger foothold here than in the US.

Someone1234 7y ago

> To echo what others said... Your post doesn't do that. Most other posts name other reasons (potentially legitimate ones), your "it is expensive" justification is inaccurate and doesn't echo most posts here. > Microsoft charged money in multiple areas of the stack: the compiler (VS) cost money, the database (MS SQL Server) cost money, and the operating system (Windows licenses) cost money. The C# compiler is free and OSS. You don't need Visual Studio to use it. In fact many use it with VSCode, VIM, or Notepad++ for $0. You can also pay less money and use Jetbrains' Rider, or 5x commercial users can use Visual Studio Community Edition if you want a fancy IDE. MS Sql is non-free. But not at all part of .Net Framework. So it is off-topic. You can use MySQL, PostgreSql, SQLite, most Cloud database solutions (Azure, AWS, Google Cloud), or whatever you want. Drivers are readily available. You also don't need Windows. .Net Core is available for Linux and MacOS. So if C#/.Net Core + VIM + Linux + MySql is your thing? You can. For $0. Today. This type of misinformation is why people don't look to .Net Core though unfortunately.

Barrin92 7y ago
> You can. For $0. Today. with the focus on today. A significant amount of infrastructure you just named is merely a few years old, and understandably hasn't made it into most companies.
jasode 7y ago
>Your post doesn't do that. So in the good spirit of acknowledging others who posted similar comments before me, I get nitpicked?!? - hours before me... look for word "money": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256086 - hour before me... look for word "budget":: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256682 - 9 minutes before me... look for word "expensive": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256765 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256765 - 5 minutes before me... look for word "costs": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256788 >For $0. Today. Yes I also mentioned that tools are free today. My comment was about how the past has a ripple effect on culture of startups avoiding the Microsoft tech stack. This is still in effect today. I would guess than 90+% of YC startups in 2019 are still not choosing the Microsoft stack. It doesn't matter to those founders that .NET Core and VSCode are free today.