5 ms·

Do you actually think that the “lack of expectations” from the leftwing has meant that the black community in Chicago has gone into crime? That seems... absurdl

by sprafa 7y ago

Do you actually think that the “lack of expectations” from the leftwing has meant that the black community in Chicago has gone into crime? That seems... absurdly racist or pseudoracist in nature. Do white people also fall into crime because of “lack of expectations” as well? What you describe of black kids dying sounds nothing like “lack of expectations” to me. More like “forsaken communities”. Not denying any longstanding cultural factors, people go into crime because of a combination of opportunity and motivation (from the studies I remember reading). “Lack of expectations” has never been measured as a problem as far as I know. And your sentiment just sounds like 21st century “white mans burden” all over again. If poor crime policy is the problem then that’s another thing entirely. But then crime gets reduced by a combination of reducing inequality, increasing opportunities and yes good (sometimes draconian) policing. But you don’t mention that, only that black people in Chicago are criminal somehow because the political class has a “lack of expectations” for them.

0815test 7y ago
> Do white people also fall into crime because of “lack of expectations” as well? Why not? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory is quite race independent FWIW.
- almostdeadguy 7y ago
  lol did you read the wikipedia page you just linked?
  - dang 7y ago
    Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?
    - almostdeadguy 7y ago
      You're a mod here and you're going to police a snarky reply to a racist comment? Interesting priorities.
- sprafa 7y ago
  I agree that forsaken communities is a problem. That’s why I asked OP if he considered a black problem. I was trying to tease out an answer from him. Of course he immediately attacked me and refused to answer it directly and called what I said gobblygook. Which makes me think I was right in calling him out.
bedhead 7y ago
I think you've proven my point about the inability to confront reality and blame shifting that's allowed violence to spiral out of control. That you call me racist in between all that gobbleygook couldn't be more cliche. The lack of expectations is simply an observation and alternative way to say that no one actually cares. And since no one cares, the behavior is allowed to continue unabated. We can debate why no one cares and why it's tolerated (I would argue liberal ethos but to each his own) but the fact is that no one cares and that creates some extraordinarily bad incentives over time.
- scarface74 7y ago
  Or could it possibly be that the “War on Drugs” disproportionately targets minorities, as well as arrests and sentencing? Drug use and selling is just as real in the burbs but when little Bobby gets caught it’s swept under the rug, because the judge thinks it’s just youthful indiscretion and “that could be my kid”. When little Jerome gets arrested let’s throw the book at him to keep another “thug” off the street. Let’s not even get into the difference between how drug abuse is a “disease that needs to be treated” now that it impacts “rural America” instead of the “inner city”.
  - Jeema101 7y ago
    In fact, if there's any 'death spiral' in cities to speak of, it's the one caused by the War on Drugs and tough-on-crime policies which have led to mass incarceration. People in low-income areas have few income options. They turn to illegal activities to make money. They then get incarcerated for those activities. That then removes those income generators (illegal as the income may be) from the community, which in turn impoverishes the area even more. Go to beginning. Unfortunately there's no immediate fix to this but at least it does seem that there is starting to be more bipartisan agreement that the current mass incarceration system doesn't work.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      And then when they get out of jail, no one will hire them because they have a felony conviction. But the “War on Drugs” was a favorite talking point of both Democrats and Republicans. Now both parties except for a few hard liners on the right and politicians that are in the pockets of private prisons and the bail bonds industry are for prison reform.

by sprafa 7y ago

0815test 7y ago

> Do white people also fall into crime because of “lack of expectations” as well? Why not? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory is quite race independent FWIW.

almostdeadguy 7y ago
lol did you read the wikipedia page you just linked?
- dang 7y ago
  Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?
  - almostdeadguy 7y ago
    You're a mod here and you're going to police a snarky reply to a racist comment? Interesting priorities.
sprafa 7y ago
I agree that forsaken communities is a problem. That’s why I asked OP if he considered a black problem. I was trying to tease out an answer from him. Of course he immediately attacked me and refused to answer it directly and called what I said gobblygook. Which makes me think I was right in calling him out.

bedhead 7y ago

I think you've proven my point about the inability to confront reality and blame shifting that's allowed violence to spiral out of control. That you call me racist in between all that gobbleygook couldn't be more cliche. The lack of expectations is simply an observation and alternative way to say that no one actually cares. And since no one cares, the behavior is allowed to continue unabated. We can debate why no one cares and why it's tolerated (I would argue liberal ethos but to each his own) but the fact is that no one cares and that creates some extraordinarily bad incentives over time.

scarface74 7y ago
Or could it possibly be that the “War on Drugs” disproportionately targets minorities, as well as arrests and sentencing? Drug use and selling is just as real in the burbs but when little Bobby gets caught it’s swept under the rug, because the judge thinks it’s just youthful indiscretion and “that could be my kid”. When little Jerome gets arrested let’s throw the book at him to keep another “thug” off the street. Let’s not even get into the difference between how drug abuse is a “disease that needs to be treated” now that it impacts “rural America” instead of the “inner city”.
- Jeema101 7y ago
  In fact, if there's any 'death spiral' in cities to speak of, it's the one caused by the War on Drugs and tough-on-crime policies which have led to mass incarceration. People in low-income areas have few income options. They turn to illegal activities to make money. They then get incarcerated for those activities. That then removes those income generators (illegal as the income may be) from the community, which in turn impoverishes the area even more. Go to beginning. Unfortunately there's no immediate fix to this but at least it does seem that there is starting to be more bipartisan agreement that the current mass incarceration system doesn't work.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    And then when they get out of jail, no one will hire them because they have a felony conviction. But the “War on Drugs” was a favorite talking point of both Democrats and Republicans. Now both parties except for a few hard liners on the right and politicians that are in the pockets of private prisons and the bail bonds industry are for prison reform.