6 ms·

I switched back to Firefox from Chrome earlier this year, and the experience has been very positive. It performs well, feels snappy, the dev tools are on par w

I switched back to Firefox from Chrome earlier this year, and the experience has been very positive. It performs well, feels snappy, the dev tools are on par with Chrome's and everything feels right. The only negatives are that container tabs are still taking a bit of getting used to (why can't I have a 'Work' window in which all the new tabs are 'Work' tabs by default?) and the initial migration of passwords was a bit of a pain. However, I'm glad to be back.

bad_user 7y ago
For passwords the browser's built in management is inferior to password managers. I use 1Password (most polished) and there's also Bitwarden (hosted, but open source) and others. And I use my password manager every day, so if there's a cost associated, it's worth it.
- nkozyra 7y ago
  > For passwords the browser's built in management is inferior to password managers. Can you expound? After years of using various pw managers I found it being embedded in the browser very useful.
  - nashashmi 7y ago
    One type of incident I came across repeatedly was the browser would not recognize new password setup after password reset. Also found that 2fa systems were being confused for new password accounts. I agree password managers like last pass fill this void quite nicely. But are not serviced to run on mobile without payment.
  - Majestic121 7y ago
    Not the parent, but for my own use case, I use password managers for things outside of the browser (office door code, steam, this kind of thing). It might be possible to enter those in the password manager of the browser, I never actually checked, but in any case that's why I use an out of browser password manager
    - nkozyra 7y ago
      At least with chrome it's always there, you can access on mobile.
      - emayljames 7y ago
        At least on Firefox it's always there, you can access on mobile.
  - jjoonathan 7y ago
    Having your passwords quickly available on every computer, every phone, every OS, and every browser is great. Browser-plugin + app password managers do all 4, while password managers provided by the OS or browser typically fail at one of those. They fail hard, too, by making it difficult to manually extract passwords when you need to. They also tend to lack features like password generation, note storage, etc. It's a completely different experience, really.
    - kwhitefoot 7y ago
      > by making it difficult to manually extract passwords Not true for Firefox. Just go the privacy settings, forms, saved logins.
      - crumpets 7y ago
        That’s difficult for a common workflow. Going into “settings” for a password is as goofy as going into settings to look at your calendar.
        Gracana 7y ago
        What common workflow requires accessing usernames and passwords manually?
        iopq 7y ago
        When the URL of the login form changes, or Firefox doesn't see it, or you need to log in to a mobile app
      - nkozyra 7y ago
        Similarly easy for Chrome - Settings -> Passwords then once OS password entered you can see each.
    - arianvanp 7y ago
      Euhm the firefox password manager syncs between devices and even has a standalone app https://lockwise.firefox.com/ https://lockwise.firefox.com/ Edit: Though Lockwise is relatively new, and currently opt in. And misses features like importing passwords bulk from other password managers
  - dtroode 7y ago
    Recently I've restored my iPhone and lost all of my passwords in Safari. Now I use LastPass
- mathgeek 7y ago
  > For passwords the browser's built in management is inferior to password managers. This is a good thing. Browsers should be good at browsing. Password managers should be good at managing passwords. The two should have API’s as necessary to interact so that the user can choose what’s best for them.
  - Spivak 7y ago
    Technical differences aside, why is it a good thing that the password manager shipped with Firefox isn't as good as most 3rd party password managers? It seems odd to prefer that software be bad. Lockwise, which admittedly requires an add-on but integrates with the built-in password manager, I think is pretty on par with its contemporaries.
    - ghettoimp 7y ago
      FWIW. I think keeping the password manager separate from the browser makes wonderful sense. - There are many times you need a password when you are not in a browser. For instance, on my phone where I don't even have FF installed, my bank's app can still get its password filled in automatically with LastPass. - Using a separate password manager means you can use multiple browsers with no loss of password access. On my laptop I regularly use both Chrome and Firefox, and I have access to my passwords in both. On my phone, I can use my passwords from Safari. I may be biased. My wife and share a LastPass account for all of our passwords. We have so many accounts, I can't imagine managing it any other way. Having access to the passwords on all our devices is really great.
- vinay_ys 7y ago
  Firefox is investing into Lockwise (lockbox?) https://lockwise.firefox.com https://lockwise.firefox.com I feel they are spreading themselves too thin. Instead they could do everything they can to push WebAuthn with support for on-device Secure Enclave (without needing an independent hardware key) so that everyone can benefit from having as close to a separate physical key as possible. Besides the browser itself still has a lot of work to do. Apparently they had a known remote code execution vulnerability for 2 months waiting to be fixed. That is quite concerning and gives pause while deciding if we should make Firefox our primary browser.
ArmandGrillet 7y ago
> why can't I have a 'Work' window in which all the new tabs are 'Work' tabs by default? Same. I've tried Firefox last month and it is the only no-go I've no. With Firefox profiles being a thing, I wonder if a front-end to manage them like in Chrome is in development.
- krzyk 7y ago
  I don't think so, Firefox had profiles since forever and they don't have a nice UI for handling those for the whole time.
- auscompgeek 7y ago
  There already exists a profile manager UI if you run `firefox -ProfileManager` or `firefox -P`. Not as elegant as Chrome's though.
  - cpeterso 7y ago
    An easier way to manage and launch Firefox profiles is the about:profiles page.
- oAlbe 7y ago
  You could solve this problem in two ways that are pretty easy to setup and handy to use, IMO. 1. You can open a new window, move the new tab in the "Work" container (if you use an extension [1] you can just type "co work" in the address bar), and use alt+c [2] to open new tabs in that window, ensuring they are all opened in your "Work" container. 2. You can create a separate profile for work, running "firefox -p" to first create it, and then create a desktop shortcut that links to that profile. This way you'll have two separate profiles on two separate Firefox "icons" that that you can launch at your will. There are ways to do this both on Windows and Linux (not sure about Mac, never used that), and the setup needs to happen only once. I've had separate Firefox profiles for years now that just keep working without any problem. I even ported some profile folders between different installs (same OS), and to my surprise they still didn't break. [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/search-and-switch-containers/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/search-and-sw... [2] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/new-container-tab/?src=search https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/new-container...
pnelson 7y ago
I launch my browser with profiles instead of using containers. I have three at the moment: firefox --no-remote --profile "$XDG_CACHE_HOME/firefox/home" --class="browser-home" firefox --no-remote --profile "$XDG_CACHE_HOME/firefox/work" --class="browser-work" firefox --no-remote --profile "$(mktemp -d)"
- dralley 7y ago
  Profiles and containers solve two different problems. Multiple profiles will keep websites that you only log into from one profile from leaving cookies that can be seen by the other profile, but containers prevent one website from leaving cookies that can be seen by any other website even on the same profile, and prevent that website from seeing any cookies other than their own.
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    AFAIU containers can be and are shared by multiple domains, though domains pinned to exclusive containers won't be visible to one another. Opening a domain in a container, then other linked sites from that page, generally remains within the same containdr.
  - iamdamian 7y ago
    According to this thread, they largely solve the same problem: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20258432 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20258432
jarvl 7y ago
> the initial migration of passwords was a bit of a pain I had a similar issue on MacOS. After doing some research I found that exporting passwords from Chrome was literally impossible. It definitely worsened the experience of switching. Luckily I have most of my passwords in LastPass, and if I need a password that is only stored in Chrome, I'll add it to LastPass from Chrome on the fly.

bad_user 7y ago

For passwords the browser's built in management is inferior to password managers. I use 1Password (most polished) and there's also Bitwarden (hosted, but open source) and others. And I use my password manager every day, so if there's a cost associated, it's worth it.

nkozyra 7y ago
> For passwords the browser's built in management is inferior to password managers. Can you expound? After years of using various pw managers I found it being embedded in the browser very useful.
- nashashmi 7y ago
  One type of incident I came across repeatedly was the browser would not recognize new password setup after password reset. Also found that 2fa systems were being confused for new password accounts. I agree password managers like last pass fill this void quite nicely. But are not serviced to run on mobile without payment.
- Majestic121 7y ago
  Not the parent, but for my own use case, I use password managers for things outside of the browser (office door code, steam, this kind of thing). It might be possible to enter those in the password manager of the browser, I never actually checked, but in any case that's why I use an out of browser password manager
  - nkozyra 7y ago
    At least with chrome it's always there, you can access on mobile.
    - emayljames 7y ago
      At least on Firefox it's always there, you can access on mobile.
- jjoonathan 7y ago
  Having your passwords quickly available on every computer, every phone, every OS, and every browser is great. Browser-plugin + app password managers do all 4, while password managers provided by the OS or browser typically fail at one of those. They fail hard, too, by making it difficult to manually extract passwords when you need to. They also tend to lack features like password generation, note storage, etc. It's a completely different experience, really.
  - kwhitefoot 7y ago
    > by making it difficult to manually extract passwords Not true for Firefox. Just go the privacy settings, forms, saved logins.
    - crumpets 7y ago
      That’s difficult for a common workflow. Going into “settings” for a password is as goofy as going into settings to look at your calendar.
      - Gracana 7y ago
        What common workflow requires accessing usernames and passwords manually?
        iopq 7y ago
        When the URL of the login form changes, or Firefox doesn't see it, or you need to log in to a mobile app
    - nkozyra 7y ago
      Similarly easy for Chrome - Settings -> Passwords then once OS password entered you can see each.
  - arianvanp 7y ago
    Euhm the firefox password manager syncs between devices and even has a standalone app https://lockwise.firefox.com/ https://lockwise.firefox.com/ Edit: Though Lockwise is relatively new, and currently opt in. And misses features like importing passwords bulk from other password managers
- dtroode 7y ago
  Recently I've restored my iPhone and lost all of my passwords in Safari. Now I use LastPass
mathgeek 7y ago
> For passwords the browser's built in management is inferior to password managers. This is a good thing. Browsers should be good at browsing. Password managers should be good at managing passwords. The two should have API’s as necessary to interact so that the user can choose what’s best for them.
- Spivak 7y ago
  Technical differences aside, why is it a good thing that the password manager shipped with Firefox isn't as good as most 3rd party password managers? It seems odd to prefer that software be bad. Lockwise, which admittedly requires an add-on but integrates with the built-in password manager, I think is pretty on par with its contemporaries.
  - ghettoimp 7y ago
    FWIW. I think keeping the password manager separate from the browser makes wonderful sense. - There are many times you need a password when you are not in a browser. For instance, on my phone where I don't even have FF installed, my bank's app can still get its password filled in automatically with LastPass. - Using a separate password manager means you can use multiple browsers with no loss of password access. On my laptop I regularly use both Chrome and Firefox, and I have access to my passwords in both. On my phone, I can use my passwords from Safari. I may be biased. My wife and share a LastPass account for all of our passwords. We have so many accounts, I can't imagine managing it any other way. Having access to the passwords on all our devices is really great.
vinay_ys 7y ago
Firefox is investing into Lockwise (lockbox?) https://lockwise.firefox.com https://lockwise.firefox.com I feel they are spreading themselves too thin. Instead they could do everything they can to push WebAuthn with support for on-device Secure Enclave (without needing an independent hardware key) so that everyone can benefit from having as close to a separate physical key as possible. Besides the browser itself still has a lot of work to do. Apparently they had a known remote code execution vulnerability for 2 months waiting to be fixed. That is quite concerning and gives pause while deciding if we should make Firefox our primary browser.

ArmandGrillet 7y ago

> why can't I have a 'Work' window in which all the new tabs are 'Work' tabs by default? Same. I've tried Firefox last month and it is the only no-go I've no. With Firefox profiles being a thing, I wonder if a front-end to manage them like in Chrome is in development.

krzyk 7y ago
I don't think so, Firefox had profiles since forever and they don't have a nice UI for handling those for the whole time.
auscompgeek 7y ago
There already exists a profile manager UI if you run `firefox -ProfileManager` or `firefox -P`. Not as elegant as Chrome's though.
- cpeterso 7y ago
  An easier way to manage and launch Firefox profiles is the about:profiles page.
oAlbe 7y ago
You could solve this problem in two ways that are pretty easy to setup and handy to use, IMO. 1. You can open a new window, move the new tab in the "Work" container (if you use an extension [1] you can just type "co work" in the address bar), and use alt+c [2] to open new tabs in that window, ensuring they are all opened in your "Work" container. 2. You can create a separate profile for work, running "firefox -p" to first create it, and then create a desktop shortcut that links to that profile. This way you'll have two separate profiles on two separate Firefox "icons" that that you can launch at your will. There are ways to do this both on Windows and Linux (not sure about Mac, never used that), and the setup needs to happen only once. I've had separate Firefox profiles for years now that just keep working without any problem. I even ported some profile folders between different installs (same OS), and to my surprise they still didn't break. [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/search-and-switch-containers/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/search-and-sw... [2] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/new-container-tab/?src=search https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/new-container...

pnelson 7y ago

I launch my browser with profiles instead of using containers. I have three at the moment: firefox --no-remote --profile "$XDG_CACHE_HOME/firefox/home" --class="browser-home" firefox --no-remote --profile "$XDG_CACHE_HOME/firefox/work" --class="browser-work" firefox --no-remote --profile "$(mktemp -d)"

dralley 7y ago
Profiles and containers solve two different problems. Multiple profiles will keep websites that you only log into from one profile from leaving cookies that can be seen by the other profile, but containers prevent one website from leaving cookies that can be seen by any other website even on the same profile, and prevent that website from seeing any cookies other than their own.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  AFAIU containers can be and are shared by multiple domains, though domains pinned to exclusive containers won't be visible to one another. Opening a domain in a container, then other linked sites from that page, generally remains within the same containdr.
- iamdamian 7y ago
  According to this thread, they largely solve the same problem: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20258432 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20258432

jarvl 7y ago

> the initial migration of passwords was a bit of a pain I had a similar issue on MacOS. After doing some research I found that exporting passwords from Chrome was literally impossible. It definitely worsened the experience of switching. Luckily I have most of my passwords in LastPass, and if I need a password that is only stored in Chrome, I'll add it to LastPass from Chrome on the fly.