5 ms·

> Unfortunately, until carriers and manufacturers provide an easy method to legitimately unlock devices, there will be a natural tension between the rooting and

by mcritz 16y ago

> Unfortunately, until carriers and manufacturers provide an easy method to legitimately unlock devices, there will be a natural tension between the rooting and security communities. We can only hope that carriers and manufacturers will recognize this, and not force users to choose between device openness and security. I don’t see that as likely. In fact, Android’s “openness” can lead to maliciousness on the part of carriers and phone makers against their users. I cite Android phones that come from carriers with unremovable junkware & phones that have hardware encryption that prevents user rooting.

yanw 16y ago
That practice is being offset by the sheer number and variety of Android devices, consumers are buying the more ‘open’ handsets and thus signaling the demand for them.
- ugh 16y ago
  “Consumers are buying the more ‘open’ handsets and thus signaling the demand for them.” Are they? What is your source for that?
  - yanw 16y ago
    One would imagine buyers get influenced by reviews and those tend to favor the more consumer friendly choices. Also there was an incident with Vodafone where people complained about their bloatware on twitter and they soon pushed an update to remove it.
  - guelo 16y ago
    I imagine the quantity is small but there is some percentage of buyers, such as myself, that make sure there is an root exploit available before I buy a phone.
    - jrockway 16y ago
      Absolutely. I wanted to buy an EVO 4G and because root was easily available, I had no trouble paying the ETF and switching to Sprint. If I had to use the phone as I bought it from them, I would not be a customer.
    - CaptainZapp 16y ago
      I know it's not fashionable nowadays, but I, for my part stick to Nokia phones. "Rootability" is not an accident there, but part of the design. This, of course is unless your (subsidized) phone is locked down to hell and then some. This is much less a problem in Europe, since you can always buy the unlocked phone and as a matter of fact, with the exception of pre-paid phones, even subsidized phones are not SIM-locked (you sign a contract anyway) and I never had one loaded with un- removable crap-ware.
- barredo 16y ago
  I don't think that's the case, I would guess "Droids" outsold "Nexus", being the former more "open". But it will be nice to see some numbers.
  - yanw 16y ago
    Don't have any sales numbers, just an assumption. And I don't think the Droids are good examples of un-tinkerable handsets.
    - gcb 16y ago
      compare the nexus one with the closed version from htc... the nexus lost to any of them. to the point of google dropping sales. a company, that can dump money on every kind of crap, discontinued sales of something. how much worse do you want it to get until you accept it was a joke for sales? ..funny thing is that people are paying now in ebay MORE than the original price to have the device.
      - kevindication 16y ago
        It was perhaps a little ambitious for Google to expect to sell more Nexus Ones (with easy sign-up/subsidy by T-Mobile) versus Verizon selling Droids (with easy sign-up/subsidy by Verizon). It's a great device and I love mine, but that doesn't mean Google is equipped to be able to sell it. Actually, paying more on eBay for a device that is scarce is just called economics. Though, it would be surprising to learn that the price was much higher than the original unlocked price + $30 - since you can still purchase one if you have registered yourself as a developer with an Android Market account.
      - cookiecaper 16y ago
        Most people just walk into a store and get a phone that they think is cool. The Nexus One was not available anywhere except Google's website. When I went in to the T-Mobile store, I came out with a G1 because the T-Mobile lady was explaining all of the hoops one must jump through to use a Nexus One. They don't carry them so you have to order online and wait 4-7 days for the phone to arrive (my old phone was broken, so this alone made it not an option for me), you can't use T-Mobile's normal plans on them, I wouldn't have been able to buy with subsidy because my previous contract had one month left and therefore manager override was necessary to grant the discount on the phone, and I didn't have $500-$600 cash sitting around to spend on a phone, and so on. If the N1 got the same kind of carrier marketing and buy-in that the other phones got, I'm sure it would have done well. Carriers, however, did not want to provide that marketing or support because doing so would minimize their death grip on the end-user and count as a success for something not loaded with carrier crapware, which they don't want either. The carriers know, of course, that nobody really _likes_ having a permanent, unremovable Blockbuster app on their phone. But since people will tolerate it, and the carrier gets a lot of money from Blockbuster (or NASCAR or whatever) for doing that, they want to keep phones that are free from this crapware as far away as possible; if they didn't, people would prefer phones that are without crapware, and this would impede the carrier's ability to sell contracts to include crapware.
- CountSessine 16y ago
  Signalling to whom? The telephone companies? They don't care - they don't want open. And they control the sales channel. Signalling to the telephone manufacturers? They're powerless - if they anger Verizon they'll lose all of their customers. Until that changes, Android, and wireless in general, will continue to be a lot less open than it should be.

by mcritz 16y ago

yanw 16y ago

That practice is being offset by the sheer number and variety of Android devices, consumers are buying the more ‘open’ handsets and thus signaling the demand for them.

ugh 16y ago
“Consumers are buying the more ‘open’ handsets and thus signaling the demand for them.” Are they? What is your source for that?
- yanw 16y ago
  One would imagine buyers get influenced by reviews and those tend to favor the more consumer friendly choices. Also there was an incident with Vodafone where people complained about their bloatware on twitter and they soon pushed an update to remove it.
- guelo 16y ago
  I imagine the quantity is small but there is some percentage of buyers, such as myself, that make sure there is an root exploit available before I buy a phone.
  - jrockway 16y ago
    Absolutely. I wanted to buy an EVO 4G and because root was easily available, I had no trouble paying the ETF and switching to Sprint. If I had to use the phone as I bought it from them, I would not be a customer.
  - CaptainZapp 16y ago
    I know it's not fashionable nowadays, but I, for my part stick to Nokia phones. "Rootability" is not an accident there, but part of the design. This, of course is unless your (subsidized) phone is locked down to hell and then some. This is much less a problem in Europe, since you can always buy the unlocked phone and as a matter of fact, with the exception of pre-paid phones, even subsidized phones are not SIM-locked (you sign a contract anyway) and I never had one loaded with un- removable crap-ware.
barredo 16y ago
I don't think that's the case, I would guess "Droids" outsold "Nexus", being the former more "open". But it will be nice to see some numbers.
- yanw 16y ago
  Don't have any sales numbers, just an assumption. And I don't think the Droids are good examples of un-tinkerable handsets.
  - gcb 16y ago
    compare the nexus one with the closed version from htc... the nexus lost to any of them. to the point of google dropping sales. a company, that can dump money on every kind of crap, discontinued sales of something. how much worse do you want it to get until you accept it was a joke for sales? ..funny thing is that people are paying now in ebay MORE than the original price to have the device.
    - kevindication 16y ago
      It was perhaps a little ambitious for Google to expect to sell more Nexus Ones (with easy sign-up/subsidy by T-Mobile) versus Verizon selling Droids (with easy sign-up/subsidy by Verizon). It's a great device and I love mine, but that doesn't mean Google is equipped to be able to sell it. Actually, paying more on eBay for a device that is scarce is just called economics. Though, it would be surprising to learn that the price was much higher than the original unlocked price + $30 - since you can still purchase one if you have registered yourself as a developer with an Android Market account.
    - cookiecaper 16y ago
      Most people just walk into a store and get a phone that they think is cool. The Nexus One was not available anywhere except Google's website. When I went in to the T-Mobile store, I came out with a G1 because the T-Mobile lady was explaining all of the hoops one must jump through to use a Nexus One. They don't carry them so you have to order online and wait 4-7 days for the phone to arrive (my old phone was broken, so this alone made it not an option for me), you can't use T-Mobile's normal plans on them, I wouldn't have been able to buy with subsidy because my previous contract had one month left and therefore manager override was necessary to grant the discount on the phone, and I didn't have $500-$600 cash sitting around to spend on a phone, and so on. If the N1 got the same kind of carrier marketing and buy-in that the other phones got, I'm sure it would have done well. Carriers, however, did not want to provide that marketing or support because doing so would minimize their death grip on the end-user and count as a success for something not loaded with carrier crapware, which they don't want either. The carriers know, of course, that nobody really _likes_ having a permanent, unremovable Blockbuster app on their phone. But since people will tolerate it, and the carrier gets a lot of money from Blockbuster (or NASCAR or whatever) for doing that, they want to keep phones that are free from this crapware as far away as possible; if they didn't, people would prefer phones that are without crapware, and this would impede the carrier's ability to sell contracts to include crapware.
CountSessine 16y ago
Signalling to whom? The telephone companies? They don't care - they don't want open. And they control the sales channel. Signalling to the telephone manufacturers? They're powerless - if they anger Verizon they'll lose all of their customers. Until that changes, Android, and wireless in general, will continue to be a lot less open than it should be.