5 ms·

Were ethnically German Americans put in concentration camps too? There far more people of German heritage in the US, Col Schisskopf from Catch 22 for example

_iyig 7y ago
German-Americans had been aggressively discriminated against before and during WW1 [0]. By the time WW2 rolled around, many German-American families had worked very hard to assimilate and had acquired economic and political influence which could shield them from mass detentions. Even so, a small number were still detained by the government during both wars [1]. [0] http://www.iptv.org/iowapathways/mypath/immigrants-during-wartime http://www.iptv.org/iowapathways/mypath/immigrants-during-wa... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans
- rolltiide 7y ago
  German-Americans: Missed slavery, missed Nazism still indiscriminately expected to have white guilt Doesnt seem nuanced enough or productive for American society
  - geofft 7y ago
    Can you avoid the passive voice? Who precisely is expecting German-Americans to have "white guilt"?
    - rolltiide 7y ago
      Nobody precisely is thinking of German-Americans The point is that this level of nuance isnt present, and it undermines the understanding of cultural groups within America
      - 0815test 7y ago
        German-Americans were highly encouraged to self-identify as "white" during the Progressive Era, precisely due to the WWI issue and as a way of promoting some kind of unity beyond national-origin differences. Of course that still involved exclusion of minorities, and one can make the case that this laser-focus on race has had terrible side-effects (many present-day Europeans would probably see it that way!), but still. It's doubtful whether there even is a distinct German-American identity today in the U.S., the way there absolutely was one in the 19th century.
        rolltiide 7y ago
        > It’s doubtful whether there even is a distinct German-American identity Because comics will laugh someone out the room for describing their German Swiss but also Irish heritage. Actively encouraging people to “just say white” when within the confines of America or earshot of any Americans Its probably unproductive There are nuances associated with heritage that can let you understand people better When Im in Europe or Commonwealth countries people seem way more interested in where I’m from than any muddied grouping of color:heritage ratio. Would like to see that in the states
      - geofft 7y ago
        Sure, so who is non-nuancedly expecting German-Americans along with others to have "white guilt"?
Hasknewbie 7y ago
Yes, both during WW1 and WW2, but to a much lesser extent than Japanese-American: only a few thousands were held, most of thoses deemed German enough were only required to register at their local police station. So not really the same level of collective punishment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans
inflatableDodo 7y ago
There were reasons for FDR mistreating the Japanese more than the Germans, that have very little to do with the conflict. Basically, he was a despicable piece of shit in his views on people from Asia, long before war broke out. Here is FDR writing in 1925; >“Let us first examine that nightmare to many Americans, especially our friends in California, the growing population of Japanese on the Pacific slope. It is undoubtedly true that in the past many thousands of Japanese have legally or otherwise got into the United States, settled her and raised up children who became American citizens. Californians have properly objected on the sound basic ground that Japanese immigrants are not capable of assimilation into the American population. If this had throughout the discussion been made the sole ground for the American attitude all would have been well, and the people of Japan would today understand and accept our decision. >Anyone who has traveled in the Far East knows that the mingling of Asiatic blood with European or American blood produces, in nine cases out of ten, the most unfortunate results. There are throughout the East many thousands of so-called Eurasians—men and women and children partly of Asiatic blood and partly of European or American blood. These Eurasians are, as a common thing, looked down on and despised, both by the European and American who reside there, and by the pure Asiatic who lives there."
- masklinn 7y ago
  Californian farmers were also very interested in booting japanese farmers out and taking over their land. Not just because it was good land, but because japanese family farms were very efficient and proficient "truck farms" (growing cash crops like strawberries, peppers, beans, gourds, … for markets and restaurants): californian japanese farms had almost 10% of that market before the removal order, and their farms were worth ~$250/acre on average, versus ~$40 US average. Stumping for the "victory garden" was a direct consequence of the internment order, and tens of millions worth of truck crops unexpectedly missing from the market.
youdontknowtho 7y ago
Race is a factor. After the camps were initially liberated prisoners became "displaced persons". Obviously, they were treated better than under the Nazis but many were held in the same camps for years after the war. This is from Patton's journal... "Harrison and his ilk believe that the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies particularly to the Jews who are lower than animals,” We have so mythologized our victory in WWII that's our mistakes and failures don't really exist for most people. We were only noble. We were only brave. We were only just. It's way more complicated.
- geofft 7y ago
  I'm reminded of this story of a man who was sent to the concentration camps for homosexuality, only to be imprisoned after the war for the same offense by the same judge: https://twitter.com/holocaustmuseum/status/1137100696606695424 https://twitter.com/holocaustmuseum/status/11371006966066954...
- youdontknowtho 7y ago
  I don't know why this is being downvoted. It's clear that even German POWs were treated better than the Japanese...which under different circumstances is something we talk about as an example of how we are better than our enemies.

_iyig 7y ago

German-Americans had been aggressively discriminated against before and during WW1 [0]. By the time WW2 rolled around, many German-American families had worked very hard to assimilate and had acquired economic and political influence which could shield them from mass detentions. Even so, a small number were still detained by the government during both wars [1]. [0] http://www.iptv.org/iowapathways/mypath/immigrants-during-wartime http://www.iptv.org/iowapathways/mypath/immigrants-during-wa... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans

rolltiide 7y ago
German-Americans: Missed slavery, missed Nazism still indiscriminately expected to have white guilt Doesnt seem nuanced enough or productive for American society
- geofft 7y ago
  Can you avoid the passive voice? Who precisely is expecting German-Americans to have "white guilt"?
  - rolltiide 7y ago
    Nobody precisely is thinking of German-Americans The point is that this level of nuance isnt present, and it undermines the understanding of cultural groups within America
    - 0815test 7y ago
      German-Americans were highly encouraged to self-identify as "white" during the Progressive Era, precisely due to the WWI issue and as a way of promoting some kind of unity beyond national-origin differences. Of course that still involved exclusion of minorities, and one can make the case that this laser-focus on race has had terrible side-effects (many present-day Europeans would probably see it that way!), but still. It's doubtful whether there even is a distinct German-American identity today in the U.S., the way there absolutely was one in the 19th century.
      - rolltiide 7y ago
        > It’s doubtful whether there even is a distinct German-American identity Because comics will laugh someone out the room for describing their German Swiss but also Irish heritage. Actively encouraging people to “just say white” when within the confines of America or earshot of any Americans Its probably unproductive There are nuances associated with heritage that can let you understand people better When Im in Europe or Commonwealth countries people seem way more interested in where I’m from than any muddied grouping of color:heritage ratio. Would like to see that in the states
    - geofft 7y ago
      Sure, so who is non-nuancedly expecting German-Americans along with others to have "white guilt"?

Hasknewbie 7y ago

Yes, both during WW1 and WW2, but to a much lesser extent than Japanese-American: only a few thousands were held, most of thoses deemed German enough were only required to register at their local police station. So not really the same level of collective punishment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans

inflatableDodo 7y ago

There were reasons for FDR mistreating the Japanese more than the Germans, that have very little to do with the conflict. Basically, he was a despicable piece of shit in his views on people from Asia, long before war broke out. Here is FDR writing in 1925; >“Let us first examine that nightmare to many Americans, especially our friends in California, the growing population of Japanese on the Pacific slope. It is undoubtedly true that in the past many thousands of Japanese have legally or otherwise got into the United States, settled her and raised up children who became American citizens. Californians have properly objected on the sound basic ground that Japanese immigrants are not capable of assimilation into the American population. If this had throughout the discussion been made the sole ground for the American attitude all would have been well, and the people of Japan would today understand and accept our decision. >Anyone who has traveled in the Far East knows that the mingling of Asiatic blood with European or American blood produces, in nine cases out of ten, the most unfortunate results. There are throughout the East many thousands of so-called Eurasians—men and women and children partly of Asiatic blood and partly of European or American blood. These Eurasians are, as a common thing, looked down on and despised, both by the European and American who reside there, and by the pure Asiatic who lives there."

masklinn 7y ago
Californian farmers were also very interested in booting japanese farmers out and taking over their land. Not just because it was good land, but because japanese family farms were very efficient and proficient "truck farms" (growing cash crops like strawberries, peppers, beans, gourds, … for markets and restaurants): californian japanese farms had almost 10% of that market before the removal order, and their farms were worth ~$250/acre on average, versus ~$40 US average. Stumping for the "victory garden" was a direct consequence of the internment order, and tens of millions worth of truck crops unexpectedly missing from the market.

youdontknowtho 7y ago

Race is a factor. After the camps were initially liberated prisoners became "displaced persons". Obviously, they were treated better than under the Nazis but many were held in the same camps for years after the war. This is from Patton's journal... "Harrison and his ilk believe that the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies particularly to the Jews who are lower than animals,” We have so mythologized our victory in WWII that's our mistakes and failures don't really exist for most people. We were only noble. We were only brave. We were only just. It's way more complicated.

geofft 7y ago
I'm reminded of this story of a man who was sent to the concentration camps for homosexuality, only to be imprisoned after the war for the same offense by the same judge: https://twitter.com/holocaustmuseum/status/1137100696606695424 https://twitter.com/holocaustmuseum/status/11371006966066954...
youdontknowtho 7y ago
I don't know why this is being downvoted. It's clear that even German POWs were treated better than the Japanese...which under different circumstances is something we talk about as an example of how we are better than our enemies.