5 ms·

I know too little chemistry to say if this is viable or not, economically speaking, but here are a couple of questions that I have: - ammonia/NH3 is highly cor

I know too little chemistry to say if this is viable or not, economically speaking, but here are a couple of questions that I have: - ammonia/NH3 is highly corrosive IIRC, and also toxic. Do we have good ways to handle it in a safe manner? - while capitalism has its drawbacks one thing it usually manages is to get funding for anything that seems like a good investment. And while I can understand why Exxon or Shell might stay clear there are many more who doesn't have their own oil fields and should be happy to get on the next big thing? Don't misunderstand me: this sounds extremely cool and useful, but those two questions immediately crossed my mind.

ncmncm 7y ago
> Do we have good ways to handle it in a safe manner? We handle millions of tons of it every year, already. So, yes. Farmers buy it in barrels and mount them on their plows.
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  > Farmers buy it in barrels and mount them on their plows As you said above, ammonia is used to make fertiliser but AFAIK that happens in factories, but are you saying farmers actually use it directly? I really struggle to believe that. I'd be curious for more info, thanks.
  - wayoutthere 7y ago
    Ammonia isn’t used directly as a fertilizer; but it’s pretty easy to turn into ammonium nitrate. There are commercially available “mini factories” [1] that presumably mitigate the carbon cost of transport from a huge centralized fertilizer factory. The famine prevented by the NPK fertilizer cycle is probably the greatest contributor to the population growth of the 20th century, so suffice to say it’s very well understood by agricultural chemists worldwide. [1] https://www.fertilizer-machine.com/product/Fertilizer_Production_Line/mini-compound-fertilizer-production-line.html https://www.fertilizer-machine.com/product/Fertilizer_Produc...
    - Robotbeat 7y ago
      Ammmonia actually is sometimes used directly as a fertilizer: https://www.wfyi.org/files/wfyi/articles/current/050719-anhydrous-ammonia-fertilizer.jpg https://www.wfyi.org/files/wfyi/articles/current/050719-anhy...
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    Yes: https://www.wfyi.org/files/wfyi/articles/current/050719-anhydrous-ammonia-fertilizer.jpg https://www.wfyi.org/files/wfyi/articles/current/050719-anhy...
  - tempguy9999 7y ago
    Good lord, I am amazed. Thanks all
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    My father was doing this 60 years ago. It is released directly into the soil, and soil microbes take it up with astonishing speed. He said you can't smell any ammonia when it is operating.
- 0xDEFC0DE 7y ago
  Agriculture has a fairly high death rate as an industry though, I don't think that's really a point in your favor.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    Mostly from shenanigans related to all the heavy equipment they have exposure to, not chemical poisoning.
    - 0xDEFC0DE 7y ago
      They can't handle heavy machinery safely and you want to give them ammonia?
      - ncmncm 7y ago
        They have ammonia. And diesel. And pesticides. And explosives. You want to take them away?
        0xDEFC0DE 7y ago
        I'm kinda leaning towards it, yeah.
        ncmncm 7y ago
        Stop eating, then.
    - dreamcompiler 7y ago
      Yep. Worst trauma I ever saw as an EMT was farming accidents. Much worse than car accidents.

ncmncm 7y ago

> Do we have good ways to handle it in a safe manner? We handle millions of tons of it every year, already. So, yes. Farmers buy it in barrels and mount them on their plows.

tempguy9999 7y ago
> Farmers buy it in barrels and mount them on their plows As you said above, ammonia is used to make fertiliser but AFAIK that happens in factories, but are you saying farmers actually use it directly? I really struggle to believe that. I'd be curious for more info, thanks.
- wayoutthere 7y ago
  Ammonia isn’t used directly as a fertilizer; but it’s pretty easy to turn into ammonium nitrate. There are commercially available “mini factories” [1] that presumably mitigate the carbon cost of transport from a huge centralized fertilizer factory. The famine prevented by the NPK fertilizer cycle is probably the greatest contributor to the population growth of the 20th century, so suffice to say it’s very well understood by agricultural chemists worldwide. [1] https://www.fertilizer-machine.com/product/Fertilizer_Production_Line/mini-compound-fertilizer-production-line.html https://www.fertilizer-machine.com/product/Fertilizer_Produc...
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    Ammmonia actually is sometimes used directly as a fertilizer: https://www.wfyi.org/files/wfyi/articles/current/050719-anhydrous-ammonia-fertilizer.jpg https://www.wfyi.org/files/wfyi/articles/current/050719-anhy...
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  Yes: https://www.wfyi.org/files/wfyi/articles/current/050719-anhydrous-ammonia-fertilizer.jpg https://www.wfyi.org/files/wfyi/articles/current/050719-anhy...
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  Good lord, I am amazed. Thanks all
- ncmncm 7y ago
  My father was doing this 60 years ago. It is released directly into the soil, and soil microbes take it up with astonishing speed. He said you can't smell any ammonia when it is operating.
0xDEFC0DE 7y ago
Agriculture has a fairly high death rate as an industry though, I don't think that's really a point in your favor.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Mostly from shenanigans related to all the heavy equipment they have exposure to, not chemical poisoning.
  - 0xDEFC0DE 7y ago
    They can't handle heavy machinery safely and you want to give them ammonia?
    - ncmncm 7y ago
      They have ammonia. And diesel. And pesticides. And explosives. You want to take them away?
      - 0xDEFC0DE 7y ago
        I'm kinda leaning towards it, yeah.
        ncmncm 7y ago
        Stop eating, then.
  - dreamcompiler 7y ago
    Yep. Worst trauma I ever saw as an EMT was farming accidents. Much worse than car accidents.