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How has uptake been thus far among developers looking for a job? You may want to experiment with the way you frame this. As Adam Gopnik suggests in a recent Ne

How has uptake been thus far among developers looking for a job? You may want to experiment with the way you frame this. As Adam Gopnik suggests in a recent New Yorker article on aging, one bias that works against your site could come from an unexpected source: aging developers themselves. > In other words, many older people would sooner thrash on the floor in distress than press a button — one that may summon assistance but whose real impact is to admit, I am old. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/05/20/can-we-live-longer-but-stay-younger https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/05/20/can-we-live-lo... He's talking about products designed for baby boomers, but I suppose the same "eternal truth" as he puts it (i.e. "identity matters to us far more than utility") could factor in here. He offers this observation in the article: > The most effective way of comforting the aged, the researchers there find, is through a kind of comical convergence of products designed by and supposedly for impatient millennials, which secretly better suit the needs of irascible boomers. The best hearing aids look the most like earbuds. The most effective PERS device is an iPhone or an Apple Watch app. Good luck and keep us posted on how things work out.

carmenbr 7y ago
I'd say we are having a pretty good response. The website itself will not sort the ageism out. Companies first need to realise how important is to have a diversity staff not only because they are being forced to diversify but, as McKinsey and other researchers found out, diversity makes organisations "more effective, more successful, more profitable."
- ThomPete 7y ago
  I love what you are doing. As in love. I wrote a whole essay on the postive and negative side of age (both old and young) in context of finding problems to solve for startups. As a 45 year old I solved it by starting my own company and using that to my strength. However I would caution against using the mcKinsey report as any kind of evidence or guide for thinking about diversity. It's the same claims we see when it comes to gender too. The reality is that there are no studies showing that in general companies who were not diverse and then decided to be more diverse by some of those mentioned metrics were suddenly performing better. A much more likely interpretation is that companies who are doing well financially tend to be able to care more about ex diversity. You could literally have a team of 20 old female/male geezers be just as diverse as a team with the most mixed combination of ages, genders and ethnic groups you could find. What matters in my experience is what kind of diversity we are talking about and how it's used, not just whether there is diversity. What matters is the market and that it allows for diversity itself. You could have a team of only 20 year olds and you can have a team of +45 year olds and they would both offer something different to the market. I don't think you even need to worry about that part to be honest. The benefits of age are enough: More experience, better ability in general to prioritize, focused on their work, less likely to work themselves too hard, more stability, less likely to switch jobs for the next great opportunity etc.
  - pwodhouse 7y ago
    When people talk about ageism in tech, they aren't talking about great old people getting passed over for mediocre young people. They are talking about mediocre old people getting passed over for unknown young people with "potential".
    - ThomPete 7y ago
      They are talking about a lot of things including whether someone is too old for the dynamics on the team or in the company.
- pwodhouse 7y ago
  What prevents an ageist company from joining your job board and still being ageist? Vanishingly few companies admit being ageist
  - carmenbr 7y ago
    We believe if any company is ageist and don't want the more experienced ones working with them, the would have no benefits joining our job board. We can be wrong though
    - samstave 7y ago
      You know who isnt going to be ageist: I left SV tech scene due to ageism, and retarded business models and joined Cannabis Tech Industry. I am building out some serious tech-stack for managing cannabis cultivation and manufacturing.... (doesnt matter that the product is cannabis) - but this is the industry vertical that can really benefit from deeply experienced techs from SV into this space. Basically, it works as a multiplier; in this space, one vet tech is worth 5X people for their needs. They wont hire 5X 20-somethings that only know one small portion of the stack requirements for all aspects of running a successful cannabis business, and will value those who are capable across broad reach.
  - c0vfefe 7y ago
    If they don't want older devs, why would they pay to join the board? PR?
cyberferret 7y ago
For what it's worth - I am a 52 year old programmer, and see ageism rampant in the industry where I am. I'm the sort of guy who held off wearing glasses for about 2 years because I didn't want to seem "old", but I wholeheartedly embrace a community like this job board where I don't have to second guess whether I will make it past round one because my birth year predates man walking on the moon. Programmers love short cuts. Older programmers are wise enough to see this as another way to bypass all those crappy hurdles that younger orientated startups will put in our way, IMO.
- klenwell 7y ago
  That might be one way to reframe this to avoid the AgeLab paradox mentioned by Gopnik: "Old people will not buy anything that reminds them that they are old." Rather than, "Here's a site for older programmers," it could be, "Here's a site that will help you bypass all those crappy hurdles that younger orientated startups will put in your way." Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of younger programmers started flocking to that site as well. I know I would. But then I'm old enough to be protected by the ADEA myself.
- eikenberry 7y ago
  > For what it's worth - I am a 52 year old programmer, and see ageism rampant in the industry where I am. Mind if I ask where you are? I'm almost 50 and haven't really seen any overt signs of ageism in my area. My pet theory is that it is much more regional than usually presented and am curious where which regions have it more than others. Thanks.
  - cyberferret 7y ago
    I am in Australia. In a remote location, not in the major cities. I just cannot seem to get meetings with VC people or meetings with government bodies etc. to discuss funding these days, even though I have a product that is active in the market and making money. Many younger colleagues whom I mentor get meetings for basic concepts and non existent products as soon as they ask. I have other colleagues similar age to me who cannot get bookings for speaking gigs any more despite decades of experience doing so. One, who was instrumental in getting Microsoft off the ground in Australia back in the day is constantly told she is "not a good fit" when applying for a Product Manager position at local startups.

carmenbr 7y ago

I'd say we are having a pretty good response. The website itself will not sort the ageism out. Companies first need to realise how important is to have a diversity staff not only because they are being forced to diversify but, as McKinsey and other researchers found out, diversity makes organisations "more effective, more successful, more profitable."

ThomPete 7y ago
I love what you are doing. As in love. I wrote a whole essay on the postive and negative side of age (both old and young) in context of finding problems to solve for startups. As a 45 year old I solved it by starting my own company and using that to my strength. However I would caution against using the mcKinsey report as any kind of evidence or guide for thinking about diversity. It's the same claims we see when it comes to gender too. The reality is that there are no studies showing that in general companies who were not diverse and then decided to be more diverse by some of those mentioned metrics were suddenly performing better. A much more likely interpretation is that companies who are doing well financially tend to be able to care more about ex diversity. You could literally have a team of 20 old female/male geezers be just as diverse as a team with the most mixed combination of ages, genders and ethnic groups you could find. What matters in my experience is what kind of diversity we are talking about and how it's used, not just whether there is diversity. What matters is the market and that it allows for diversity itself. You could have a team of only 20 year olds and you can have a team of +45 year olds and they would both offer something different to the market. I don't think you even need to worry about that part to be honest. The benefits of age are enough: More experience, better ability in general to prioritize, focused on their work, less likely to work themselves too hard, more stability, less likely to switch jobs for the next great opportunity etc.
- pwodhouse 7y ago
  When people talk about ageism in tech, they aren't talking about great old people getting passed over for mediocre young people. They are talking about mediocre old people getting passed over for unknown young people with "potential".
  - ThomPete 7y ago
    They are talking about a lot of things including whether someone is too old for the dynamics on the team or in the company.
pwodhouse 7y ago
What prevents an ageist company from joining your job board and still being ageist? Vanishingly few companies admit being ageist
- carmenbr 7y ago
  We believe if any company is ageist and don't want the more experienced ones working with them, the would have no benefits joining our job board. We can be wrong though
  - samstave 7y ago
    You know who isnt going to be ageist: I left SV tech scene due to ageism, and retarded business models and joined Cannabis Tech Industry. I am building out some serious tech-stack for managing cannabis cultivation and manufacturing.... (doesnt matter that the product is cannabis) - but this is the industry vertical that can really benefit from deeply experienced techs from SV into this space. Basically, it works as a multiplier; in this space, one vet tech is worth 5X people for their needs. They wont hire 5X 20-somethings that only know one small portion of the stack requirements for all aspects of running a successful cannabis business, and will value those who are capable across broad reach.
- c0vfefe 7y ago
  If they don't want older devs, why would they pay to join the board? PR?

cyberferret 7y ago

For what it's worth - I am a 52 year old programmer, and see ageism rampant in the industry where I am. I'm the sort of guy who held off wearing glasses for about 2 years because I didn't want to seem "old", but I wholeheartedly embrace a community like this job board where I don't have to second guess whether I will make it past round one because my birth year predates man walking on the moon. Programmers love short cuts. Older programmers are wise enough to see this as another way to bypass all those crappy hurdles that younger orientated startups will put in our way, IMO.

klenwell 7y ago
That might be one way to reframe this to avoid the AgeLab paradox mentioned by Gopnik: "Old people will not buy anything that reminds them that they are old." Rather than, "Here's a site for older programmers," it could be, "Here's a site that will help you bypass all those crappy hurdles that younger orientated startups will put in your way." Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of younger programmers started flocking to that site as well. I know I would. But then I'm old enough to be protected by the ADEA myself.
eikenberry 7y ago
> For what it's worth - I am a 52 year old programmer, and see ageism rampant in the industry where I am. Mind if I ask where you are? I'm almost 50 and haven't really seen any overt signs of ageism in my area. My pet theory is that it is much more regional than usually presented and am curious where which regions have it more than others. Thanks.
- cyberferret 7y ago
  I am in Australia. In a remote location, not in the major cities. I just cannot seem to get meetings with VC people or meetings with government bodies etc. to discuss funding these days, even though I have a product that is active in the market and making money. Many younger colleagues whom I mentor get meetings for basic concepts and non existent products as soon as they ask. I have other colleagues similar age to me who cannot get bookings for speaking gigs any more despite decades of experience doing so. One, who was instrumental in getting Microsoft off the ground in Australia back in the day is constantly told she is "not a good fit" when applying for a Product Manager position at local startups.