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I don't say they shouldn't share the blame. But simply telling a bank that you pay your bills on time isn't related to establishing identity. "Does mikeash pa

I don't say they shouldn't share the blame. But simply telling a bank that you pay your bills on time isn't related to establishing identity. "Does mikeash pay his bills on time?" "Yes, mikeash pays his bills on time" "Good! Let me open this account for John Smith".

mikeash 7y ago
You literally said that I need to put the blame where it lies and that it lies with the banks. A third party I’ve never interacted with gives out my private information without first asking for my permission. This is a crucial step in a common pattern of fraud. If they asked me for permission before they gave out my private info, it would shut down this entire type of fraud. They are fully aware of all of this, and continue with business as usual anyway. How is any of this ok?
- g051051 7y ago
  > A third party I’ve never interacted with gives out my private information without first asking for my permission. But they don't give out private information. They don't get anything but some aggregate data about how well you pay your bills. I.E. how many accounts are open, how many have been paid late in the last 30 days, etc. > If they asked me for permission before they gave out my private info, it would shut down this entire type of fraud. That is now possible with the two CRAs: TransUnion: https://www.transunion.com/product/transunion-credit-protection https://www.transunion.com/product/transunion-credit-protect... Equifax: https://www.equifax.com/personal/products/credit/credit-lock-alert/ https://www.equifax.com/personal/products/credit/credit-lock... Experian and Innovis: I didn't see anything similar, but I'd be shocked if it wasn't imminent for them as well.
  - mikeash 7y ago
    Of course it’s private information. It’s certainly not public record. It’s possible with two of them. Great. Let me know when it’s mandatory for all of them.
  - rectang 7y ago
    Everyone is still opted-in by default! The human tragedies will continue at nearly the same pace. These locks just provide a way to shut up the outlier loudest complainers and a rationale for victim-blaming everyone else. ("You could have locked your credit, you know...") By what right do the CRAs demand individuals consumers' time and protection money? It is incredibly frustrating to see these feckless, disingenuous half-measures cited as progress. It only confirms to me the futility of collaborating on market-based solutions with market players whose interests would be harmed by meaningful solutions. I wish it didn't come down to imposing regulations, because regulations truly harm market efficiency. But what choice are we left with?
    - g051051 7y ago
      > I wish it didn't come down to imposing regulations, because regulations truly harm market efficiency. But what choice are we left with? But that's what we need. But what do our "leaders" think when people rant and rave without showing they even understand the problem? Citizen: I need you to do something about identity theft! Lawmaker: Yes, it's clear we need to get some regulation in this space. C: I'm tired of getting turned down for loans, or having credit cards opened in my name! We need to shut down the CRAs! L: ... Uh, you know that CRAs don't actually do that? It's your bank or credit card company that opens the account, they're the ones that need to verify identity to make sure that people are who they claim to be... C: Don't try to defend them! They kept me from buying a car! L: ... Thank you, citizen. I'll get right on it. Vote Quimby!
- specialist 7y ago
  A third party I’ve never interacted with... Any one warehousing my data needs to tell me what, how, why. PS- You and rectang are doing yeoman work in this thread, thank you.
  - g051051 7y ago
    > Any one warehousing my data needs to tell me what, how, why. You already have all of this from CRAs: * They are required by law to tell you what they have related to you every year, for free. * These reports include the source of the information. * The why is well known, as it's their business model. Edit: not only that, but the law restricts who can actually request access to any of this data, under "permissible purpose".
    - specialist 7y ago
      Sorry for late response, I got confused but the thread depth. First, I have to ask. I'm advocating default opt-out. For everything. Second, they're always wrong and hard to correct. Been there, done that.
      - g051051 7y ago
        > I'm advocating default opt-out. For everything. In this system, you'd never get credit. You'd apply for a loan or CC, they'd ask you for permission to check with a CRA and share your info, you'd say no, and they'd show you the door. > Second, they're always wrong and hard to correct. Been there, done that. No, they're not. Sometimes they're wrong, either because bad info was reported, or there's a problem at the CRA. Sometimes the errors are hard to correct. I've never had any bad information on my reports. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, any more than you seeing something wrong on your report means they're "always wrong". It just means that no system is perfect.

mikeash 7y ago

You literally said that I need to put the blame where it lies and that it lies with the banks. A third party I’ve never interacted with gives out my private information without first asking for my permission. This is a crucial step in a common pattern of fraud. If they asked me for permission before they gave out my private info, it would shut down this entire type of fraud. They are fully aware of all of this, and continue with business as usual anyway. How is any of this ok?

g051051 7y ago
> A third party I’ve never interacted with gives out my private information without first asking for my permission. But they don't give out private information. They don't get anything but some aggregate data about how well you pay your bills. I.E. how many accounts are open, how many have been paid late in the last 30 days, etc. > If they asked me for permission before they gave out my private info, it would shut down this entire type of fraud. That is now possible with the two CRAs: TransUnion: https://www.transunion.com/product/transunion-credit-protection https://www.transunion.com/product/transunion-credit-protect... Equifax: https://www.equifax.com/personal/products/credit/credit-lock-alert/ https://www.equifax.com/personal/products/credit/credit-lock... Experian and Innovis: I didn't see anything similar, but I'd be shocked if it wasn't imminent for them as well.
- mikeash 7y ago
  Of course it’s private information. It’s certainly not public record. It’s possible with two of them. Great. Let me know when it’s mandatory for all of them.
- rectang 7y ago
  Everyone is still opted-in by default! The human tragedies will continue at nearly the same pace. These locks just provide a way to shut up the outlier loudest complainers and a rationale for victim-blaming everyone else. ("You could have locked your credit, you know...") By what right do the CRAs demand individuals consumers' time and protection money? It is incredibly frustrating to see these feckless, disingenuous half-measures cited as progress. It only confirms to me the futility of collaborating on market-based solutions with market players whose interests would be harmed by meaningful solutions. I wish it didn't come down to imposing regulations, because regulations truly harm market efficiency. But what choice are we left with?
  - g051051 7y ago
    > I wish it didn't come down to imposing regulations, because regulations truly harm market efficiency. But what choice are we left with? But that's what we need. But what do our "leaders" think when people rant and rave without showing they even understand the problem? Citizen: I need you to do something about identity theft! Lawmaker: Yes, it's clear we need to get some regulation in this space. C: I'm tired of getting turned down for loans, or having credit cards opened in my name! We need to shut down the CRAs! L: ... Uh, you know that CRAs don't actually do that? It's your bank or credit card company that opens the account, they're the ones that need to verify identity to make sure that people are who they claim to be... C: Don't try to defend them! They kept me from buying a car! L: ... Thank you, citizen. I'll get right on it. Vote Quimby!
specialist 7y ago
A third party I’ve never interacted with... Any one warehousing my data needs to tell me what, how, why. PS- You and rectang are doing yeoman work in this thread, thank you.
- g051051 7y ago
  > Any one warehousing my data needs to tell me what, how, why. You already have all of this from CRAs: * They are required by law to tell you what they have related to you every year, for free. * These reports include the source of the information. * The why is well known, as it's their business model. Edit: not only that, but the law restricts who can actually request access to any of this data, under "permissible purpose".
  - specialist 7y ago
    Sorry for late response, I got confused but the thread depth. First, I have to ask. I'm advocating default opt-out. For everything. Second, they're always wrong and hard to correct. Been there, done that.
    - g051051 7y ago
      > I'm advocating default opt-out. For everything. In this system, you'd never get credit. You'd apply for a loan or CC, they'd ask you for permission to check with a CRA and share your info, you'd say no, and they'd show you the door. > Second, they're always wrong and hard to correct. Been there, done that. No, they're not. Sometimes they're wrong, either because bad info was reported, or there's a problem at the CRA. Sometimes the errors are hard to correct. I've never had any bad information on my reports. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, any more than you seeing something wrong on your report means they're "always wrong". It just means that no system is perfect.