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In cypherpunk terms, what’s dreamy about a crypto currency with no anonymity, that shifts power from international democratic governments to private US corporat

In cypherpunk terms, what’s dreamy about a crypto currency with no anonymity, that shifts power from international democratic governments to private US corporations?

_eht 7y ago
Nothing, really.
aakilfernandes 7y ago
1) Irreversibility. You have a payment system with that small companies can actually build gateways to true cryptos. Not to mention the “high risk” businesses locked out or priced out of fiat gateways 2) Cryptographic proofs of payment. With that you can do a lot of fun stuff, especially with smart contracts. Going back to #1 you can make the gateway trustless
- afiori 7y ago
  strong irreversibility sounds nice for a financial business of for b2b, but from a common usage perspective it has no benefit whatsoever.
  - millettjon 7y ago
    You can build reversibility on top of irreversibility but not vice versa.
    - afiori 7y ago
      I understand that there are important use cases where irreversibility is must. My issue is that in a typical consumer-focused market (like most if not all online shopping or physical shops) it is only to the advantage of the seller and has essentially no benefit for the buyer.
chicob 7y ago
Nothing, unless you're a anarcho-capitalist libertarian.
- beezischillin 7y ago
  I highly doubt anarcho capitalists would want to replace the government with another, even worse government
  - chicob 7y ago
    But perhaps they wish companies became independent of the Federal Reserve, and more in control of the value of their own currency, both in terms of exchange rates and the ends to which they can be used or not.
    - beezischillin 7y ago
      They also happen to be a conglomerate who’s a EULA-change away from pushing at the very least millions if not more people into this. From a person’s point of view there’s no freedom to be gained here and those people generally tend to be about personal freedom.
      - chicob 7y ago
        The libertarians, perhaps, yes. But not the anarcho-capitalists, who will always defend the right to property and freedom of agency in the markets above all other things. Which includes minting your own coin, if you choose to do so.
beloch 7y ago
It's not cypherpunk at all, but it's cyberpunk in spades! The world switching to corporate currency is like something out of a 80's/90's William Gibson novel.
baby 7y ago
If this works. You will have a mainstream cryptocurrency that you can directly access. No middle-man.
wyoh 7y ago
Because you thunk governements having power over currency is a good thing? At least with corporations you can choose to deal or not with them, that's the dream.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- lazulicurio 7y ago
  > At least with corporations you can choose to deal or not with them That position beaks down when the corporations control the means of transaction. It would be a different story if Libra was a bunch of companies making an arrangement to accept each other's individually-issued cryptocurrencies, but instead its a cabal issuing one scrip that they all control.
- confounded 7y ago
  > Because you thunk governements having power over currency is a good thing? I don’t have too strong an opinion, but certainly it’s a well-understood thing. What specifically is bad about it? The ability for governments to seize money or interfere-with/surveil transactions looks like it will be preserved via Libra’s KYC/AML surveillance/protections. I suppose for people with very large amounts of money, they might disagree with their government’s currency policy re: inflation/deflation. But for those people, a huge range of investment products exist to hedge.
- rootsudo 7y ago
  The whole idea of fiat currency is a centralized power e.g. a government to control the printing, security and value of money. How/why is a corporation better? A corporation's main goal is to profit.
- failrate 7y ago
  It is much harder to choose whether or not to deal with them than you imply. For example, Experian has your data and is a significant factor in whether you can get a loan. You never chose to do business with them.
galaxyLogic 7y ago
Is Bitcoin governed democratically?
- afiori 7y ago
  No, the consensus could be defined democratic maybe, but the coin and protocol are clearly not.

In cypherpunk terms, what’s dreamy about a crypto currency with no anonymity, that shifts power from international democratic governments to private US corporations?

_eht 7y ago

Nothing, really.

aakilfernandes 7y ago

1) Irreversibility. You have a payment system with that small companies can actually build gateways to true cryptos. Not to mention the “high risk” businesses locked out or priced out of fiat gateways 2) Cryptographic proofs of payment. With that you can do a lot of fun stuff, especially with smart contracts. Going back to #1 you can make the gateway trustless

afiori 7y ago
strong irreversibility sounds nice for a financial business of for b2b, but from a common usage perspective it has no benefit whatsoever.
- millettjon 7y ago
  You can build reversibility on top of irreversibility but not vice versa.
  - afiori 7y ago
    I understand that there are important use cases where irreversibility is must. My issue is that in a typical consumer-focused market (like most if not all online shopping or physical shops) it is only to the advantage of the seller and has essentially no benefit for the buyer.

chicob 7y ago

Nothing, unless you're a anarcho-capitalist libertarian.

beezischillin 7y ago
I highly doubt anarcho capitalists would want to replace the government with another, even worse government
- chicob 7y ago
  But perhaps they wish companies became independent of the Federal Reserve, and more in control of the value of their own currency, both in terms of exchange rates and the ends to which they can be used or not.
  - beezischillin 7y ago
    They also happen to be a conglomerate who’s a EULA-change away from pushing at the very least millions if not more people into this. From a person’s point of view there’s no freedom to be gained here and those people generally tend to be about personal freedom.
    - chicob 7y ago
      The libertarians, perhaps, yes. But not the anarcho-capitalists, who will always defend the right to property and freedom of agency in the markets above all other things. Which includes minting your own coin, if you choose to do so.

beloch 7y ago

It's not cypherpunk at all, but it's cyberpunk in spades! The world switching to corporate currency is like something out of a 80's/90's William Gibson novel.

baby 7y ago

If this works. You will have a mainstream cryptocurrency that you can directly access. No middle-man.

wyoh 7y ago

Because you thunk governements having power over currency is a good thing? At least with corporations you can choose to deal or not with them, that's the dream.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lazulicurio 7y ago
> At least with corporations you can choose to deal or not with them That position beaks down when the corporations control the means of transaction. It would be a different story if Libra was a bunch of companies making an arrangement to accept each other's individually-issued cryptocurrencies, but instead its a cabal issuing one scrip that they all control.
confounded 7y ago
> Because you thunk governements having power over currency is a good thing? I don’t have too strong an opinion, but certainly it’s a well-understood thing. What specifically is bad about it? The ability for governments to seize money or interfere-with/surveil transactions looks like it will be preserved via Libra’s KYC/AML surveillance/protections. I suppose for people with very large amounts of money, they might disagree with their government’s currency policy re: inflation/deflation. But for those people, a huge range of investment products exist to hedge.
rootsudo 7y ago
The whole idea of fiat currency is a centralized power e.g. a government to control the printing, security and value of money. How/why is a corporation better? A corporation's main goal is to profit.
failrate 7y ago
It is much harder to choose whether or not to deal with them than you imply. For example, Experian has your data and is a significant factor in whether you can get a loan. You never chose to do business with them.

galaxyLogic 7y ago

Is Bitcoin governed democratically?

afiori 7y ago
No, the consensus could be defined democratic maybe, but the coin and protocol are clearly not.