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> police harassment every year over minor infractions. I'm confused by this phrase. do you think that minor infractions shouldn't be enforced at all? is it "ha

> police harassment every year over minor infractions. I'm confused by this phrase. do you think that minor infractions shouldn't be enforced at all? is it "harassment" anytime someone faces a consequence for violating the law?

40acres 7y ago
When looking at the major police brutality cases over the past few years you will notice that there is a disproportionate amount of force used by police relative to the threat. Eric Garner was accused of selling illegal cigarettes, was this a crime? Yes. Should he been put in a choke hold and held down by multiple officers despite being clearly subdued and repeatedly saying that he could not breathe? No. Sandra Bland was killed over a parking ticket. Recently, in Phoenix, a young family was threaten horribly because the daughter "shoplifted" a doll without the parents knowledge. There is a clear pattern of disproportionate force used in relation to the actual activity being prosecuted.
- JudgeWapner 7y ago
  The cases you cited aren't harassment, they are brutality and excessive force. I'm asking how minor infractions should be enforced, if at all, so that they are simply enforcement and not harassment.
  - locopati 7y ago
    How about NYC's stop-and-frisk policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_Cit...
danShumway 7y ago
It's harassment if undue attention is payed to the infractions of a specific group over society as a whole. For example, if my office had a policy that everybody should wipe down the microwave after using it, it wouldn't be a problem if that rule was enforced across the board. But if there was someone in the office who hid behind a potted plant and watched specifically for me to microwave my food so they could catch me in the act, and if I noticed that they seemed to only care about my food and no one else's, and if I noticed that even when other office members did the same thing next to me that I was still the only person who got in trouble -- at a certain point it would be reasonable for me to assume that this was personal, and not just about the microwave.
drusepth 7y ago
When I see phrases like this used, I always assume the view of "harassment" comes from an unequal enforcement on these minor infractions. For example, minorities getting prosecuted more often for infractions than non-minorities would. Minor infractions should definitely (always) be enforced, but an argument could be made that they're unequally enforced currently, which might be interpreted/manifest as harassment against some.
- JudgeWapner 7y ago
  So how would equal enforcement work? Should officers deliberately overlooked speeding or parking enforcement because their app tells them they've reached the monthly limit for the number of minorities cited for those infractions? How is that possibly fair to those minorities who live in those communities? "Whelp, everyone's double parked in front of the fire hydrant again till the first of the month. Sucks I can't use the street for another week"
  - drusepth 7y ago
    I don't think I understand the question. Equal enforcement would just be prosecuting everyone regardless of whether they're a minority or not, no?
    - JudgeWapner 7y ago
      who's to say they aren't currently doing that? That's what I'm wondering. Are there metrics for this or not? If there are, then the ridiculous scenario I contrived above is one solution. If there aren't metrics, then why is anyone assuming the worst?
  - 40acres 7y ago
    This is a straw man and you know it. The line between police harassment and brutality is very thin. All marginalized communities are asking for is equal treatment under the law.
    - 7y ago

40acres 7y ago

When looking at the major police brutality cases over the past few years you will notice that there is a disproportionate amount of force used by police relative to the threat. Eric Garner was accused of selling illegal cigarettes, was this a crime? Yes. Should he been put in a choke hold and held down by multiple officers despite being clearly subdued and repeatedly saying that he could not breathe? No. Sandra Bland was killed over a parking ticket. Recently, in Phoenix, a young family was threaten horribly because the daughter "shoplifted" a doll without the parents knowledge. There is a clear pattern of disproportionate force used in relation to the actual activity being prosecuted.

JudgeWapner 7y ago
The cases you cited aren't harassment, they are brutality and excessive force. I'm asking how minor infractions should be enforced, if at all, so that they are simply enforcement and not harassment.
- locopati 7y ago
  How about NYC's stop-and-frisk policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_Cit...

danShumway 7y ago

It's harassment if undue attention is payed to the infractions of a specific group over society as a whole. For example, if my office had a policy that everybody should wipe down the microwave after using it, it wouldn't be a problem if that rule was enforced across the board. But if there was someone in the office who hid behind a potted plant and watched specifically for me to microwave my food so they could catch me in the act, and if I noticed that they seemed to only care about my food and no one else's, and if I noticed that even when other office members did the same thing next to me that I was still the only person who got in trouble -- at a certain point it would be reasonable for me to assume that this was personal, and not just about the microwave.

drusepth 7y ago

When I see phrases like this used, I always assume the view of "harassment" comes from an unequal enforcement on these minor infractions. For example, minorities getting prosecuted more often for infractions than non-minorities would. Minor infractions should definitely (always) be enforced, but an argument could be made that they're unequally enforced currently, which might be interpreted/manifest as harassment against some.

JudgeWapner 7y ago
So how would equal enforcement work? Should officers deliberately overlooked speeding or parking enforcement because their app tells them they've reached the monthly limit for the number of minorities cited for those infractions? How is that possibly fair to those minorities who live in those communities? "Whelp, everyone's double parked in front of the fire hydrant again till the first of the month. Sucks I can't use the street for another week"
- drusepth 7y ago
  I don't think I understand the question. Equal enforcement would just be prosecuting everyone regardless of whether they're a minority or not, no?
  - JudgeWapner 7y ago
    who's to say they aren't currently doing that? That's what I'm wondering. Are there metrics for this or not? If there are, then the ridiculous scenario I contrived above is one solution. If there aren't metrics, then why is anyone assuming the worst?
- 40acres 7y ago
  This is a straw man and you know it. The line between police harassment and brutality is very thin. All marginalized communities are asking for is equal treatment under the law.
  - 7y ago